Are we just a bunch of saps or do we have any power?

[Robbo]

Over the years we have had many initiatives varying from player representations all the way over to industry federations that try to organise oursleves into working bodies to try and improve conditions and value for money.. but all are reliant upon the players actually doing something rather than just 'saying' they are gonna do something.

Why is it the French and Germans kick the living sh!t out of us when it comes to organising themselves into coherent bodies of representation .. do they care about paintball more than us or is it we are just a bunch of lazy-ass individuals who don't really give a sh!t about anything?

I don't like playing second fiddle to the Yanks but you get used to that but when it comes to playing second fiddle to the Frogs and Krauts [no disrespect intended I promise] I draw a line ... something has to be done but we face the perennial problem of mobilizing people .. a feat that has escaped our clutches for the past 12 years or so ..

I have seen soo many examples of us Brits doing great things and achieving fantastic accomplishments and yet ... I have borne witness to the other side of our psyche where we talk a good fight but when it comes to it ... we ain't there when the fight starts.

It's frustrating for sure because I know what we are capable of but where is the answer?

We have needed an active coherent representation to the millennium for a long time and its our complete and utter inaction that has paved the way for many of the MS series' diabolical decisions in the past .. basically they've got away with murder and in the seemingly appropriate words of the Yanks, all we do is 'bend over and take it up the ass' ... I realise in this area, nobody else in Europe has done anyhthing but at least they have the bedrock there to mobilise in the form of French and German team federations that have something like over 800 teams signed up.
We got zip . .. that's what we got !!

We have the people who can organise and run these things but to do so, players and teams have to make an effort and it seems this is lacking every time ...

I don't like being thought of as a walkover, we owe ourselves more than this ... but do we now just accept the way things are and allow circumstances to determine our fate rather than we play an active role?

I'd be interested to see what Jay [Buddha 3] says here because he has an acute insight to our culture and paintball history and yet he's Dutch and therefore has an appropriate distance to enable a valid perspective on us .... Also Paul Richards [Baca Loco] is similarly well placed and it'd be great to hear from him on this ... and of course it's imperative we hear from the very people this is all about, you guys out there ...

 

[jitsuwarrior]

Surely part of the problem lies with the domestic scene? At no point is there a way to get the top teams from each tourney to play each other. Part of this is due to fuel costs, a lot of this is due to people not taking it seriously. I know in the North East lads are willing and have travelled several hundred miles for tournies.

Perhaps every other month the winner of each div of CPPS, the tourney that shall not be named, NSPL, and Freaky Fives could play each other? Perhaps then more teams will help to make it more competitive for the FIRM, DISRUPTION and NEXUS. I know there are more teams like Defiance and DV8 breaking into the Millenium but perhaps an inter league tournament held regularly would help to encourage the ESPRIT DE CORPS that is lacking in paintball.

I know I for one would rather watch and or play against better teams than keep playing the same regular leagues.

 

[Biscuit]

some thing like this will never happen in this country
reason being most players have got this attitude of it doesn`t effect me so i`m not bothered about what happens in the ms.
if such a group was to be organised it would have to include all sides of paintball.
Scenario and Sup-air,that way all players would feel it would represent them
it would have to be recognised by event organisers in this country first.
the people picked to do this job would have to cross all forms of paintball and paintball forums,and be universally liked
Attitudes between sup-air and scenario players would have to change,not in a big way but there is this long running thing of people from both communities saying their form of paintball is better than the other
but in the end it will come down to one thing ,is what`s it going to cost me and why do i have to have it.
all you have to look at is the UKPSF membership,players bitiched and moaned about paying for that,even though it is a fantastic thing
Robbo your thread may have answered it`s self,when i started writing this reply 50+
people had veiwed it but not 1 person had replied why
End of the day guys if your not willing to say what you think and stand up for yourselves,prepare to bend over,because somebody is always prepared to do you up the harris

 

[Biscuit]

Jitsu they called an event like that the fed cup
what happened teams couldn`t be bothered:tsk:
think you may have got the wrong end of the stick aswell, i may be wrong but think Robbo is on about a players organisation

 

[cowface]

Its a knock about errol


representation to MS ... who gives a f*ck basically ? right ???? you speak to the average baller in the UK , they couldnt care for the MS event, so why would they be bothered about representaition to the MS when they dont play MS ?

MS does something, we moan at it...................thats all that happens. This media top thing , prime example that i cant wait to see pan out,,,, is someone going to make a stand and call for a boycott or again, are we just going to follow.

As Slim Shady use to say ' These voices, these voices, i hear them, and when they talk i follow, i follow, i follow all these voices '

 

[P8ntballer.Com]

Jitsu they called an event like that the fed cup
what happened teams couldn`t be bothered:tsk:
think you may have got the wrong end of the stick aswell, i may be wrong but think Robbo is on about a players organisation

I'm not really on about anything specific here more a general attitude toward any organisation that tries to create some form of representation either for a voice to go to the Millennium with or indeed to try and give players better events, and yet all of these have fallen flat on their face.

As I said, we ain't short of people who will do the legwork here, in fact, they do it for nothing but for the love of the game and a lot of people in our industry and indeed our player base have provided infrastructures only to be met with an almost immovable blob of indifference and apathy from the very players it tries to help.

And it's not even that the people trying to help aren't qualified, they tend to be hard-working, dedicated individuals all of whom have paintball flowing through their blood .. people like Steve Bull, Ledzy, Jimmy Frensham [the list goes on] ....

I detest the thought we just sit back and witness our own demise but that's exactly what we are doing .... it kinda knocks the bollocks out of ya when faced with such indifference, it really does.

We are soo quick to moan about things going on everywhere it seems, a few years back it was the standard of events, the Fed responds and then what happens?
We moan and bitch about the Millennium ... but what do we actively do about it ... apart from moan?

Jack Sh!t ... that's what we do ......

 

[bizy43]

what needs to happen, is the fed to tie the sport up through (probably) insurance and health & safety, so that you cant play tourney ball unless affiliated to the fed in some way, either as a team, club, player whatever really

other sports do the fa, RFU, cricket, jockey club, FIA and so on

I know for a fact most footballers don't give a flying f&%k about the fa but to play competitive leagues and be insured, your team has to play in a fa sanctioned league its as simple as that, a player can be as involved or not as they choose

now I don't know how to make that happen but it obviously can, maybe trying to get in touch with other governing bodies to find out how they do it is a way to move forward. its strange that we cant do this as this nation admins everything its what where good at.

i think the administration of the sport is the answer i.e rules health and safety registration.

as for the ms well as posted b4 a lot of us don't play it, is that not already a boycott

 

[jitsuwarrior]

Bizy I think you have hit the nail on the head, currently people want to play with better teams for sponsorship deals (cheaper kit), now if you had to have UKPSF membership to play any paintball then yes it would be a step in the right direction.

I think the problem a lot of teams have with the MS is price, however while the MS still attracts people who are willing to pay the price will never drop. To that extent yes the Fed Cup had the excellent idea of uniting different tourneys. However it wasn't supported or it has fallen apart from reasons unknown to most. If it is a financial reason could a Fed league of a one day tourney every two months not be introduced uniting ALL leagues? Every league has atleast one MS Team in it for training/ healthy competition. Few teams actively help the junior teams that are starting up (this is not a criticism i know some teams go out of their way to help).

I feel that unless all tournaments throughout the country link up will constantly have a problem. Yes player power will influence the industry to a point but without a sanctioned body taking charge across all formats of paintball nothing will be taken seriously.

Robbo I have watched what has gone on for the last couple of years in paintball mainly from overseas but I have to agree with what you have done with the federation. I appreciate you have stood down as chairman but I feel you were leading things to a better future. Maybe not perfect but better than 5 years ago. It would definitely benefit everyone if there was a national governing body of all paintball as well as a sanctioned route for players.

All sorts have it, perhaps one day the players in this country will see it? Perhaps player registration for tourneys should include sanctioned membership? Perhaps locking down squad lists per season for a certain level and above may also help to encourage the more professional approach to tourneys?

I think the only thing that will win British teams over is an incentive to climb the divs. Now if that means the Fed plus other tournies need to link up and state at the start of the season what is on offer at the end then maybe.

For example if you win M5 you will get £XXX of vouchers for Planet / Dye or what ever sponsor.

If you win Ultra Lite you will receive a kit deal of X Y and Z

I genuinely feel in this country without people seeing what they are potentially going to get they will continue to treat it as a Sunday league (before I am shot down I know some take it more serious than this).

 

[Robbo]

what needs to happen, is the fed to tie the sport up through (probably) insurance and health & safety, so that you cant play tourney ball unless affiliated to the fed in some way, either as a team, club, player whatever really

other sports do the fa, RFU, cricket, jockey club, FIA and so on

I know for a fact most footballers don't give a flying f&%k about the fa but to play competitive leagues and be insured, your team has to play in a fa sanctioned league its as simple as that, a player can be as involved or not as they choose

now I don't know how to make that happen but it obviously can, maybe trying to get in touch with other governing bodies to find out how they do it is a way to move forward. its strange that we cant do this as this nation admins everything its what where good at.

i think the administration of the sport is the answer i.e rules health and safety registration.

as for the ms well as posted b4 a lot of us don't play it, is that not already a boycott

Biz, good post, I was talking to Jimmy Frensham today about a very similar idea to what you propose here; it wasn't my idea I hasten to add; Jimmy was telling me how he felt things should go and we both agreed a process has to be begun because if we do nothing, our event scene over here is gonna just go from bad to worse ...
Jimmy has been a great advocate of academies and clubs for developing paintball and using that structure to move through the tournaments available.

I think it's an idea worth thinking about at the very least and I know full well Jimmy has the player at heart here but it's gonna need some hard work and commitment with little return at the beginning bearing in mind our track record in terms of response for initiatives like this.


As for teams not going to the MS being viewed as some sort of boycott?

Look, I think in a lot of those cases where teams don't go, the decision not to isn't part of an orchestrated response; it's more an individual choice borne out of a financial problem.. it has the same effect in terms of individual teams but not the same effect if it were an organised protest.

The whole idea of making a point is not so much in pulling out, it's letting the MS know why you are doing it ... then and only will you get a response.

 

[Biscuit]

the problem in this country ,if you don`t make it mandatory players won`t do it
so maybe that`s the problem
as they say you can lead a horse to water but you can`t make it drink