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Maxs Masters - Finals & various problems

Robbo

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Originally posted by Jerry Braun
Peter, Your point regarding post event testing in the Olympics is well taken. I hadn't thought of that. I just hope that there will come a time when you believe that you can make a valid point in a more gentlemanly fashion and know that the strength of that point will determine its reception.
It should be noted that I believe strongly in chronographing for safety. And, I believe, as I stated previously, that aggressive on field chronographing in more effective than end of the game testing. Eliminations or penalty one-for-ones called during the game are far better deterents than penalty points once the game is concluded, and once the game is over, hot guns will have already done their damage, if indeed, damage was done. I have no problem with the new rule for that reason, and as for the belt, suspenders, derrick and crane argument, I hope that one day soon, chronos will be attached to all guns all the time recording anything hot whenever shot. X Ball is moving us in that direction. So, hopefully this discussion will become moot in the near future.
Jerry, point taken and one already made I may add by my fairer half when she had looked at what I wrote, I will have to try and read as if it were aimed at me and judge whether or not the tone is appropriate.
That's her indoor's idea not mine and on that basis I see what you (and she) mean.
I will not make the same mistake again, apology offered !
I suppose I get carried away sometimes :)
OK, on with the show, safety, in my book and by extension, deterring hot guns is one, if not the most important aspects of adjudication.
At present there is no regime on any circuit that has sufficient and consistent on-field chronographing policies that would deter any of the cheaters I know, and here I am talking about guys who knowingly run with hot guns.
I had better qualify that, policy is one thing, implementation is quite another and whilst the resolve may be intact, what happens on that field is far divorced from what should happen.
That acknowledged, and I think you would have to agree with that, it is way too premature to even consider getting rid of post-game chronographing till such time as on-field is comprehensive and consistent enough to provide a real and effective deterrent.
And even then, I would still have doubts about dropping it but at least I might be a bit more amenable to the idea if we had judges and promoters that made it mandatory for all judges on the field to chronograph all of the players at some time during a game, with the proviso that if a judge suspects that a gun is hot at the end of a game that he is quite within his rights and not blocked by some exclusion rule, in chronographing that gun after the game.
If found to be hot, then that player / team is penalised, no argument !
I hope this post lacks some of the edge my previous post apparently exhibited, I hope so cuz I just got back from TGI Fridays and I am still pissed (drunk to you yanks).
laters Jerry :)
Pete
 

Jerry Braun

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Peter,

Apology accepted. You are indeed gracious. Thank you.
We agree far more than we disagree. But, although singing from the same hymnbook, we are still on different pages. I want to push for more vigorous on field chronoing. I agree that in a game most, if not all, of the players should be chronographed. I think that without after game chronoing, judges will have to be more vigorous in such activities. We can never compel such vigilance, and we see too often judges chronoing in half hearted ways that make the activity useless. I believe that in the near future chonos can be mounted on guns. The beep will give away any hot gun. I would like to see that as the next step in making our sport even safer to play. It is an honest debate, and although I take the position of testing during the game only, I can and have accepted the after game testing as well.
 

RePete

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Not having used on-field chronographing in NZ Jerry, my major concern is what on Earth this would do to the flow of the game...I'm about to make a move and mug some opposition player, but a ref comes up and tries to chrono me, and I miss my opportunity. Or I make a move that no one sees, and the ref some up and chronos me, giving away my spot. Or again I'm about to make a move and ask for support. As I do so, a ref comes up and chronos one of my back players, and I get tagged cause one of the opposition support players wasn't kept down. Does this happen?

I look forward to on barrel chronographs that are always on. I'll be the first person to use one of these.

As for the lax chronographing. That would be the case here because the chrono refs are most often people who want to ref, but the head ref doesn't want them on the field because of the "quality" of their reffing. So to prevent lax chrono reffing, give a perception as to how important proper chronographing is to the game. Have really bright, motivated people doing the job. Just as you want an experienced ref on the field who knows the game, you want an experienced chrono ref who knows the rules and executes them fully, who knows how to chrono an RT, and watches for reactive triggers and players who adjust their markers at the chrono and then pocket their allen keys.

Cheers,
RePete
:D
 

Jerry Braun

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RePete,

Judges who are skilled at their jobs will chrono on field at times that allow for minimum intrusion into the flow of the game. in many cases it is coming upon a player firing and sticking the chrono under the gun without disturbing his actions. Chronoing has always been a matter of playing catchup. My disagreement with Robbo is not theoretical. It's practical. There are too many ways players can act between the end of the game and post-game chronoing to defeat the intent to find hot guns. Emphasizing on field chroning, in large measure, takes the advantage away from the player and gives it squarely to the marshals. Peter is saying that we should do both (belt, suspenders, derick and crane). I don't disagree that doing both gives added weight to maintaining controls on keeping paintball guns firing at safe speeds. However, tactically and practically, as Peter pointed out, if you have post-game chronoing, judges are very lax to chrono on the field during the game, and that is what I think is most important. I would rather have vigorous on field chronographing and no post-game action than both, because I think the former will, on balance, be more effective. Like I said, it is an honest debate that I hope, one day soon, will be moot with the introduction of chronos attached to the guns themselves.
 

Robbo

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Originally posted by Jerry Braun
Peter,

Apology accepted. You are indeed gracious. Thank you.
We agree far more than we disagree. But, although singing from the same hymnbook, we are still on different pages. I want to push for more vigorous on field chronoing. I agree that in a game most, if not all, of the players should be chronographed. I think that without after game chronoing, judges will have to be more vigorous in such activities. We can never compel such vigilance, and we see too often judges chronoing in half hearted ways that make the activity useless. I believe that in the near future chonos can be mounted on guns. The beep will give away any hot gun. I would like to see that as the next step in making our sport even safer to play. It is an honest debate, and although I take the position of testing during the game only, I can and have accepted the after game testing as well.

We are now on the same page of the same book in the same library :)

Laters
Pete
 

Robbo

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Denmark...

Originally posted by goose
... may not be Vegas, but the dancing girls are better, cheaper & know a hell of a lot more tricks :) :) :) :)
goose

I will have to take your word on that Goose as I have never visited a strip joint or titty bar or bordello in my life.......and 'Yes' I am being serious !!!
I guess real good looking guys don't have to pay for **** like that, leastwise that's my story and I am sticking to it :)
Robbo