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Millennium Series 2003

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
Ay Caramba, J

Originally posted by Baca Loco

Give the guys a break. Nothing out of sorts with a tiny, wee bit of emotion.
I agree with that, but I'm just being precautious.
Recently there have been to many 'cyber bitchslappings' on here, one of which resulted in one of this forum's most prolific and well informed posters leaving the forum alltogether. Not a good thing in my book. I'd hate to see that happen again, so if it takes the odd 'now now, kids, behave' on my part, than it's all good, and everybody can just continue to disagree all they want.

Are you going soft on me, Baca? :D
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Hey Baca

Originally posted by Nick Iuel-Brockdorff
So - let's just get rid of the classifications altogether !
No more Pro, Amatuer, Novice and Rookie - just one open class !
How's that for you ?:rolleyes:
Nick
That's been seriously suggested but I don't think it's practical on the basis of drawing the team numbers the Mil expects and wants coming to the events.
Far better is a system of divisions which a) offers limited inter-division play, [1 category up, 1 category down] b) some sort of prizes for "winners" at every level, and, c) regulated advancement and relegation clearly denoted in a modified rules format either event to event or annually.
This offers lower teams the opportunity to test themselves against theoretically superior teams and assures teams are placed, at some point in time, in their category based on real results. it also offers appropriate prizes predicated on a team's ability.
The last thing that could or should be done is a flat entry rate across the board. Anything else is a disincentive to move up and implies that somehow higher category teams are receiving some "service" lower category teams aren't and is contrary to the concept that a team's status is based solely on performance.

See, I'm not really in disagreement with you Nick conceptually but there are legit issues for the lower half teams.
 
Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick........

First up bud, this is a direct quote from you:

"and people may flame me for being inpolite and arrogant"

Don't leave much chance for mis-intupretation there mate - you asked, I gave.

Why should Pros play Novice and Am teams? Why else mate, I play for an Am team and I like playing the Pros. Simple as that. These are not mythical Titans we're talking about, they are simply team prepared to put themselves up on a pedastal and invite people to knock them off. And while there is no rule to stop Avalanche playing Am next season then I want the chance to play them without having to play Pro all the time; mainly beacause I want to get better by playing better oposition but at my own pace to allow my team time to develop. It so very simple really.

On the point of my team playing Pro, there is nothing stopping us. Like there was nothing forcing us to go Am when we did, we will choose to go Pro when the time is right. The problems is, in your new world order, we would find it very difficult to judge that time as we would never get to play a Pro side! In virtually every sport there is at least an event a year when John Nobody gets a chance to swing it with the big boys.

Onto the subject of paying, using your example of football. If I was playing Sunday league football down the park with my mates would I be expected to cough up a bit of cash for David Beckhams pay cheque? Its not that I'm watching the game, its that I am competing in the same league structure - just lower down the ladder - still doesn't mean I have to cough up for a prize to the winners of a league 20 steps up the ladder.

But you have hit on one major point amongst your rambling - Paintball is not a democracy. It is a very very industry led sport, more so than any other I can think of. Name me any 3 other sports that dont have a governing body; that have events run by manufacturers and not the governing body, that doesn't have a unified rulebook. The list goes on. This pastime we all love so much is so in need of not-for-profit mangement - a governing body that can be recognised by the authorities. This is what will make our sport into a Sport - not the fact that some better teams dont have to play not so better teams.

I just don't understand how we have dragged this sport so far without setting the frameworks all other sports have. If we want to go mainstream then we will have to follow the mainstream methodology - independant, not-for-profit, centralised governning body.

Sorry to have dragged this a little off topic at the end there but I need to get that off my chest!! Its all Pipers fault.
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Re: Ay Caramba, J

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Are you going soft on me, Baca? :D
Anything but. You know I enjoy a good scrap and personally could care less what or even how folks say what they's gonna say but I do understand your position. I'm jus' wonderin' if you're not over-reacting a tad.
PS--I'd lay money the Hairless One will return. No insider knowledge--just an opinion.
 

Wadidiz

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Jul 9, 2002
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Scutty,

Once again, AMEN!

You said what I tried to say, much better and brought in some good new points.

There have been some really good and valid points on both sides of the pro-exclusive-play argument. Niall seemed to sum up the best compromises and necessary remedies.

Just hope the format Niall talked about doesn't change anytime soon. But like he said: change is coming so we have to be prepared to make some intelligent choices.

All said, this forum rules, even when it gets heated. Especially when it gets heated!

Steve
 

Wadidiz

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Nick,

Your efforts are definitely commendable. I am an absolute nobody right now. I just have a lot of opinions. But my ambition is to make it to all the Millenniums (if possible) next year, one way or another, and to give my energies to my sport in whatever form may present itself.

I am willing to help you with a players' union any way I can. Maybe I can help somehow here in Stockholm and with any connections I might have in the USA.

Drop me a line if you see anything I could possibly do.

Steve
+46 70 450 4231
 
Nick,

I think the only way that this sport will ever get a governing body is if the people that put on the tournaments get behind the idea. If you had to be a member of the body in order to play at the sanctioned tournaments then I am guessing that everyone that wants to play would join. Make the decision easy for people - you can choose to join or noot but if you dont join then you will not play the sanctioned tournamnets.
The only problem with this is getting the organisers of tournamnets on board. The idea would be to have an organisation in each country and then, as with football, there would be a European group and a World group.

What does everyone else think??
 

Hotpoint

Pompey Paintballer
Nick,

Originally posted by ascutt
I think the only way that this sport will ever get a governing body is if the people that put on the tournaments get behind the idea. If you had to be a member of the body in order to play at the sanctioned tournaments then I am guessing that everyone that wants to play would join. Make the decision easy for people - you can choose to join or not but if you dont join then you will not play the sanctioned tournamnets.
The only problem with this is getting the organisers of tournamnets on board. The idea would be to have an organisation in each country and then, as with football, there would be a European group and a World group.

What does everyone else think??
Paintball in the UK already does have a governing body that is recognised by the authorities. The UKPSF is the body that the government comes to when it has questions/queries and is the one that deals with the Sports Councils, English Nature, The Home Office, Local Councils etc etc

As Nick correctly implied the reason why the Federation seems to lack power and authority is the fact that so few people are prepared to get off their backsides and help. EVERYBODY who regularly plays paintball should be a member of the UKPSF

There are Governing bodies in many other countries that are also equally sidelined by lack of support

Series 2002 already requires players to be UKPSF members. If this became mandatory at all other tournaments we could soon double our membership and use the increased resources to really achieve something

As for international bodies it has been suggested many times that we should set up an IPSA (International Paintball Sports Association) with perhaps a reconstituted EPSF (European Paintball Sports Federation) as a precursor. This would not be all that difficult if we just had more support
 

acsik

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Hola

Methinks Paintball is the only sport where sponsors came first and "Governing Bodies" later, that will be a problem in the future.

Since sponsors have their own agenda wich is rarely the same as the "Government's" the sponsor can say "My way or the highway". And when that happens nasty things come.... (Remember Max's Masters?)


Peace