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- Thread starter Titanspeed
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The best way to learn anything is to forget most, if not all the bollocks you have heard down your local site or from homespun experts, most of whom love to hear themselves speak but have little to do with what is the right thing to do.
Techniques keep you alive in your bunker, it is the ability to stay tight and shoot your marker accurately exemplified by the snap shot which features both these asepcts of the moderrn game.
The science of the modern snap shot is based upon speed of execution with accuracy being an emergent property of a correct technique.
And so when you practice the snap you should always go for speed and as a consequence of practicing this time and again, accuracy will improve if your default position adopted and execution are correct.
Andy, let common sense guide you in all of this and not Bill Bloggs down yer local site who probably really knows as much about paintball as your local undertaker.
Robbo - you are truly a proffessor of paintology!!
I Have actually been to one of the Nexus Seminars - where this is explained in depth, and it'a real eye opener! stuff you will never have thought of!
Question robbo - At some point Technical ability must stop - after all you can only be 'so' tight and remain effective. Assuming that all pro's have this ability so finely tuned, what is it that seperates say Olly Laing from the rest of the pack.
would it be true to say that most yank pro's have this X-factor over us European types? and if so is it trainable?
Curiously.
P.
I Have actually been to one of the Nexus Seminars - where this is explained in depth, and it'a real eye opener! stuff you will never have thought of!
Question robbo - At some point Technical ability must stop - after all you can only be 'so' tight and remain effective. Assuming that all pro's have this ability so finely tuned, what is it that seperates say Olly Laing from the rest of the pack.
would it be true to say that most yank pro's have this X-factor over us European types? and if so is it trainable?
Curiously.
P.
Originally posted by pestilence
Robbo - you are truly a proffessor of paintology!!
I Have actually been to one of the Nexus Seminars - where this is explained in depth, and it'a real eye opener! stuff you will never have thought of!
Question robbo - At some point Technical ability must stop - after all you can only be 'so' tight and remain effective. Assuming that all pro's have this ability so finely tuned, what is it that seperates say Olly Laing from the rest of the pack.
would it be true to say that most yank pro's have this X-factor over us European types? and if so is it trainable?
Curiously.
P.
Good question Pesty-Bollocks
And you are right to bring this up because no better example of this question could be considered than the difference between Dynasty (Kings of Freestyling) and the Russian Legion (Kings of Technique).
It's an intriguing problem to try and unravel and one that has its roots firmly embedded into most sports where nature / nurture arguments rage unabated.
My take on it, for what it's worth is the following: we had better try and draw some clear boundaries here so we all know what we are talking about.
Firstly, techniques can be trained easily enough, just how successful the uptake by any player is dependant upon the nature of the training, the frequency of the training and any natural predisposition that player has for adopting these techniques.
Some people are just wired up differently and can thus can assimilate certain techniques easier than others.
But for the purpose of this post, we can assume that techniques can be categorised as a trained skill.
Secondly, we have natural talent, it really doesn’t need much further explanation other than to say although some people are born with it (Ex : Ollie Lang) this is no way precludes it from being trained or it being assimilated thru experience.
Each and every player is a combination of trained skills, acquired skills (experience) and natural talent and the ratio of each feature is gonna be different in every person.
The trick is to identify the boundary lines between all three and then set about understanding them so we can train the things we are able.
Not an easy task when we look at a player going thru the motions of playing because how the hell do you distinguish what a players does as a consequence of experience, training or natural talent.
Well, luckily for us we don’t have to go down that route because we can theorise from the other direction as against watching him play.
We can assume that techniques are trainable and as long as we practice sufficiently in doing the right things, it is obvious that improvement will happen as a direct consequence.
We can also assume that the more we play and attempt to integrate those trained techniques in an actual game, the more experience we will assimilate.
Any natural talent will act as a catalyst to both prior situations.
The ‘X’ factor you mention as best exemplified by Ollie is as elusive as it is coveted.
It’s tangible because the kid’s a frikkin genius but just you try to tie it down where you can truly analyse and understand it.
It’s blatancy belies its subtlety.
Ollie ostensibly runs to bunkers as we all do, he pulls the frikkin trigger like we all do and he runs like we all do and so on, but the result of what he does when compared to the mere mortals of our game is astounding.
And so we are forced into an area of speculation that would have scientists running for cover because it involves a lot of guesswork that can’t really be verified one way or the other.
All we can do really is have ‘informed’ opinions as to what’s going on.. well hopefully informed anyway.
So, to flesh all this out with some hard numbers, I am gonna indulge myself.
Now these ain’t in any way definitive quantities for god’s sake, they are merely to give an idea of orders of magnitude or more accurately ratios.
People may well come on here after and say, ‘But Pete, I think it’s 5% more than you suggest’…well, nobody really knows any definite figures anyway so it’s pointless to indulge in shaving points.
I would say, techniques goes to make up 70% of the player’s skill-set (or should do) with the remainder of a player’s portfolio being natural talent.
It’s obvious there is a huge emphasis here on techniques and thus on training; it implies there is a natural ceiling to just how far you can get with just talent because even the most talented of sportsmen have always trained.
Players like Ollie who have a high natural talent will find this as the major reason he is viewed as one of the world’s great players but to try and train what he’s got is gonna be difficult because we have to try and work out what exactly we are trying to train that can be readily distinguished from his overall technical skill-set because in essence, we can attribute all what he does as a technical skill if you think about it.
When we scratch a little deeper we do realize that the micro-decisions he makes as he plays go on to play a huge role as to whether he is successful or not and what may look arbitrary in terms of timing may well be a significant skill developed thru experience and a natural talent.
The ‘X’ factor you mention is really a combination of a lot more playing time than the average European player gets and also it reflects a higher talent component because Ollie is the product of a 12 million player cherry picking pool as against what we got over here.
It is also an emergent property of that playing time being a lot more productive because of the environment he is practicing in.
He is constantly going up against class opposition and this experience is invaluable in developing existing skill sets and also adding to the ‘experience’ factor.
This is not an excuse for any Euros to jump on, it’s an observation.
The way around these shortfalls us Euros are up against has been answered by Sergey and the strategy he adopted with the Legion whereby the ‘X’ factor has been somewhat offset (in terms of results) by increasing the technical / talent ratio in favour of training.
If player numbers in Europe stay the same then we need to train more than the Yanks if we seek parity with them, there is one other option, in that we seek out more sophisticated methods of training and that door is always open for the more enlightened of us and remains one of the real challenges some of us in Europe are trying to come to terms with.
Phew !
Pesty-bollocks eh? glad you remembered (although I never could shake that after you came up with it! grrr )
Wow - big 'ol Post. I see where your coming from, and it does make sense. I especially take the example of the Ruskies - I would like to see them opening the NPPL up like a tin o' spam when they finally get their teeth into it. but I think there may be another part to the question in hand.
for instance, would you say that psycology makes an impact? I've never met Ollie Laing face to face, but i imagine that 95% of those who face off against him/ Dynasty must know that they are on a back foot from the get go. altough it may never manifest itself in a direct win for them, i think it certainly helps thier X factor.
As a generalisation could this also be expanded to a cultural level? - where yanks naturally have this gregarious way of playing, especially compared to us brits, which make a habit of loosing (with grace) in almost every sport....?
Ultimatley though they simply do have the resources on almost everything - so i guess Ollie is just the lucky one, for if it's anything like Brit ball - there must be a million more yank players that suck compared to the UK player base - to make him look so good...
peace
P.
(although I never could shake that after you came up with it! grrr ) Wow - big 'ol Post. I see where your coming from, and it does make sense. I especially take the example of the Ruskies - I would like to see them opening the NPPL up like a tin o' spam when they finally get their teeth into it. but I think there may be another part to the question in hand.
for instance, would you say that psycology makes an impact? I've never met Ollie Laing face to face, but i imagine that 95% of those who face off against him/ Dynasty must know that they are on a back foot from the get go. altough it may never manifest itself in a direct win for them, i think it certainly helps thier X factor.
As a generalisation could this also be expanded to a cultural level? - where yanks naturally have this gregarious way of playing, especially compared to us brits, which make a habit of loosing (with grace) in almost every sport....?
Ultimatley though they simply do have the resources on almost everything - so i guess Ollie is just the lucky one, for if it's anything like Brit ball - there must be a million more yank players that suck compared to the UK player base - to make him look so good...
peace
P.
Surely to train like the yank's we need better facilties and cheaper paint? Or is the paint over the pond the same price?
Watching Ollie, is an insight, but can a player for example like David Beckham, but over rated? Could it be his team that makes the one player look like he's excelling above everyone else.
I spose you have seen him play 1st hand with Dynasty, or is Ollie dragging dynasty to the top?
On another note, who taught you Robbo? Was there a little Yoda on your travel around the world?
Watching Ollie, is an insight, but can a player for example like David Beckham, but over rated? Could it be his team that makes the one player look like he's excelling above everyone else.
I spose you have seen him play 1st hand with Dynasty, or is Ollie dragging dynasty to the top?
On another note, who taught you Robbo? Was there a little Yoda on your travel around the world?
Pesty-Bollocks, of course there is psychological component to any interaction where players go up against somebody like Ollie but the more we train the more confident we should get and as such, real players, should relish the opportunity of going at it with people like Ollie.
I think the more significant aspect of trying to clarify the 'X' factor is the cultural difference you mention.
The Yanks do have a different mentality to sport than ourselves and it manifests itself in various ways not least of which is a drive to succeed that is way above the average Brit, we would tend to sit back and moan about things rather than doing something about them.
One thing that I think gets lost in all of this when discussing Ollie, or any other top player for that matter is that he trains sometimes three times a week, the kid does circuit training, reflex training and just plays flat out ball three to four times a week.
He lives and breathes this frikkin sport of ours and that sort of dedication sometimes gets missed amid talk of genius, natural borne talent etc.
I can’t think of many Brit ballers with that same degree of dedication, can you??
We got ballers who’ talk the talk’ but when it really comes down to it, we got virtually nobody who actually ‘walks the walk’, and here I am talking about dedication and commitment to train and to be fit.
Andyb, better facilities would of course help but we need something a lot more basic than that, we need that drive to succeed that Pesty mentioned above.
You don’t need paint to keep fit, you don’t need paint to train snap shooting (well the mechanics of the snap shot anyway).
If you really wanna improve then buy Reballs and practice in yer frikkin bedroom or back garden or wherever.
Too many people find excuses not to train and then wonder why they get their asses handed to them on the field of play; it ain’t no frikkin rocket science going on here mate.
We don’t get **** for ****, if you don’t put the work in, don’t frikkin expect to improve, it’s as easy as that.
In no way can anybody describe Ollie as being over-rated, he is the greatest player of all time and plays for a team that is arguably the best of all time.
I have watched and played against him many times and he is the complete package and then some……. the rest of the guys on that team are also some of the great players of the world and so what you see when Dynasty play is an orchestration of great players going about what they do best.
As for who taught me?
The greatest teacher of all time taught me…..experience.
What experience didn’t teach me, curiosity and the need to understand provided me with the necessary tools to work out the remainder.
I think the more significant aspect of trying to clarify the 'X' factor is the cultural difference you mention.
The Yanks do have a different mentality to sport than ourselves and it manifests itself in various ways not least of which is a drive to succeed that is way above the average Brit, we would tend to sit back and moan about things rather than doing something about them.
One thing that I think gets lost in all of this when discussing Ollie, or any other top player for that matter is that he trains sometimes three times a week, the kid does circuit training, reflex training and just plays flat out ball three to four times a week.
He lives and breathes this frikkin sport of ours and that sort of dedication sometimes gets missed amid talk of genius, natural borne talent etc.
I can’t think of many Brit ballers with that same degree of dedication, can you??
We got ballers who’ talk the talk’ but when it really comes down to it, we got virtually nobody who actually ‘walks the walk’, and here I am talking about dedication and commitment to train and to be fit.
Andyb, better facilities would of course help but we need something a lot more basic than that, we need that drive to succeed that Pesty mentioned above.
You don’t need paint to keep fit, you don’t need paint to train snap shooting (well the mechanics of the snap shot anyway).
If you really wanna improve then buy Reballs and practice in yer frikkin bedroom or back garden or wherever.
Too many people find excuses not to train and then wonder why they get their asses handed to them on the field of play; it ain’t no frikkin rocket science going on here mate.
We don’t get **** for ****, if you don’t put the work in, don’t frikkin expect to improve, it’s as easy as that.
In no way can anybody describe Ollie as being over-rated, he is the greatest player of all time and plays for a team that is arguably the best of all time.
I have watched and played against him many times and he is the complete package and then some……. the rest of the guys on that team are also some of the great players of the world and so what you see when Dynasty play is an orchestration of great players going about what they do best.
As for who taught me?
The greatest teacher of all time taught me…..experience.
What experience didn’t teach me, curiosity and the need to understand provided me with the necessary tools to work out the remainder.
X Factor
Interesting thread this - now for my two pence worth !!
I think that the X factor everyone talks about is through what Pete just said "experience". Now wether you gain that experience over 15 yrs playing the game - tournament after tournament or you break the game down into it's basic principles and learn the techniques (as the Russians did!!) - then train and play 4 /5 times per week to refine your technique - there is no quick way to gain experience.
Again Ollie Lang ( or any other great player ) has built up a lifetimes experience in the game by the sheer amount of paintball he has played. What this gives him is an awareness of every situation he is likely to face when he walks out onto a field, so his reaction is instant to any given situation. If you watch him do a run through - it is instant - no hesitation - timed to perfection. So that is the great difference - timing. Knowing exactly what to do and when to do it.
Back on thread:-
Top 5 drills:
1. Snap shooting - one ball accuracy
2. Running and Shooting
3. Breakout drills - planning differant styles of breakout.
4. Sweet spotting / Laning
5. Potting up while gunning !!
Totally agree that communication comes on a need to know basis - who needs to know what on the field. Too many people talk for the sake of talking. Far better to play off each other and work out what information each player needs.
Rich
Interesting thread this - now for my two pence worth !!
I think that the X factor everyone talks about is through what Pete just said "experience". Now wether you gain that experience over 15 yrs playing the game - tournament after tournament or you break the game down into it's basic principles and learn the techniques (as the Russians did!!) - then train and play 4 /5 times per week to refine your technique - there is no quick way to gain experience.
Again Ollie Lang ( or any other great player ) has built up a lifetimes experience in the game by the sheer amount of paintball he has played. What this gives him is an awareness of every situation he is likely to face when he walks out onto a field, so his reaction is instant to any given situation. If you watch him do a run through - it is instant - no hesitation - timed to perfection. So that is the great difference - timing. Knowing exactly what to do and when to do it.
Back on thread:-
Top 5 drills:
1. Snap shooting - one ball accuracy
2. Running and Shooting
3. Breakout drills - planning differant styles of breakout.
4. Sweet spotting / Laning
5. Potting up while gunning !!
Totally agree that communication comes on a need to know basis - who needs to know what on the field. Too many people talk for the sake of talking. Far better to play off each other and work out what information each player needs.
Rich
Richard.
Agree about the timing - but for every succesful run through you see ollie perform - at some point in his career he must have tried it and walk into a string of paint. So again I think it draws back to experiance. the timing is just his xfactor showing through.
i think robbo probably hit it on the head - that the yanks simply have better resource, affordababilty, weather, and the numbers to play. Sooner or later the genius (plural) will emerge from the flock as in any other sport.
An intresting question that comes from ths, is at what point do you 'become' a good player. Now excluding the naturals - those with Latent talent - at what point in a playing career do you judge yourself to be 'good/great/godlike'? - and (for the sake of argument) feel confident to step up in each division?
From a personal point of view it was when I hit a millenium sunday club last year - and realised that I dont suck anymore - and that was after 2 years playing on a team. Do you think there are these definable tolerances that enable such growth - and more specifically what happens to trigger them? surely if this can be defined, it may go along way to localising them - and then adding them to your training regeime............
Greatest skills required? here's meh 5:
1. Technique (yes I know it encompasses alot but hey!)
2. field awarness (and analysis)
3. confidence.
4. Self analysis
5. reflex + fitness
Agree about the timing - but for every succesful run through you see ollie perform - at some point in his career he must have tried it and walk into a string of paint. So again I think it draws back to experiance. the timing is just his xfactor showing through.
i think robbo probably hit it on the head - that the yanks simply have better resource, affordababilty, weather, and the numbers to play. Sooner or later the genius (plural) will emerge from the flock as in any other sport.
An intresting question that comes from ths, is at what point do you 'become' a good player. Now excluding the naturals - those with Latent talent - at what point in a playing career do you judge yourself to be 'good/great/godlike'? - and (for the sake of argument) feel confident to step up in each division?
From a personal point of view it was when I hit a millenium sunday club last year - and realised that I dont suck anymore - and that was after 2 years playing on a team. Do you think there are these definable tolerances that enable such growth - and more specifically what happens to trigger them? surely if this can be defined, it may go along way to localising them - and then adding them to your training regeime............
Greatest skills required? here's meh 5:
1. Technique (yes I know it encompasses alot but hey!)
2. field awarness (and analysis)
3. confidence.
4. Self analysis
5. reflex + fitness