15bps rant

[A.B]

15bps cap - no ramp no full auto- shot buffering to assist in ensuring you get as near to 15bps without exceeding the stated shot spacings and therefore shooting over 15 bps- this in my view is the best option for countries that do not allow enhanced modes of fire on markers- it will still enable cheaters to use their cheat boards undetected unless they exceed 15 bps

for countries that do allow fire modes- 4 shot nxl full auto @15bps or 4 shot ramp up to 15bps- give the same technology to every player cap the rof to an amount that can be checked.

i think there are a lot of people who are confused as to what they can achieve and what they can achieve with assistance from their guns software.

i'm not totally chuffed with the thought of anyone shooting paint at 15 bps where unaided they could shoot 7-8 top- but i do believe this to be an evolution of the sport and as such an enforcable rule should be in place- rof can be measured (allegedly) cheat modes cannot be detected (fact) so give everyone the same technology and clamp down hard on those that exceed these boundries that you can enforce.

i admire the work the PA is doing with the homeoffice- and i hope that in the near future a ruling is in place to finally state what is and isn't illegal with paintguns in the UK.

A.B

 

[Intheno]

My addition to the rant would be that 15bps when shooting a lane or 'keeping someone in' is fine, and prolly less than gets shot right now in the real world. However, when running to bunker someone up close the traditional ramping guns as seen last season would rarely kick in when running to bunker someone, so that person generally would get shot about 8 times (rough estimate)
With 15bps full auto that same person could easily be shot 30 times, at 300fps.

Side note - I understand the NPPL has lowered the chrono limit from 300fps to 280fps.
In my mind that move provides a safer environment. We play on tiny courts now, who needs to be shot at 300fps, especially as people are getting shot more often these days.

280fps = safer? I think so
15bps = safer? I don't think so.

Just my opinion
I know that not everyone is advocating ramping, but you know what? You are going to get it anyway, as none of the rules put in place will get rid of it.
Have teeth, won't bite

 

[FAMINE]

OK so the uk proposal is for 15bps cap with no ramping?

How u gonna check for that then? Whats to stop someone ramping with a 15bps cap?

Pull 1 - 1ball
Pull 2 - 1 ball
Pull 3 - 15BPS

Nice

 

[TonyF]

Originally posted by FAMINE
OK so the uk proposal is for 15bps cap with no ramping?

How u gonna check for that then? Whats to stop someone ramping with a 15bps cap?

Pull 1 - 1ball
Pull 2 - 1 ball
Pull 3 - 15BPS

Nice

No, The U.K. proposal (and it looks like going ahead) is 15bps capped with ramping! There is a device that can measure the sounds the marker makes when firing and translate those sounds to bps. These, I understand, can be used on field during a game.
The other threads on this tell you more, if you can wade through all the "I can shoot faster than this posts"!

 

[FAMINE]

and to allow ramping is a good thing how??

The whole reason for this rule is supposed to be to stop the gun cheats, but the way it is being done is to allow everyone to be gun cheats!!

Those against it seem to be in the majority. yet those for it seem to use the justification that unless we can come up with something better, then tough its happening.

Well personally you wont see me playing at a tourny with these rules, I feel its unfair, unsafe and a poor soloution to a problem. When questioned on the other thread about an approx % of gun cheats in 2004, no answer was given. Personally I feel the problem is so minor, yet by allowing it to be legal will open it up for everyone to go chip markers.

Its the whole pump-semi thing again.
When semis became tourny legal the pump died away. So next will be the death of true semi and ramping will be the norm.

 

[fghost]

why is it the human race fear's change? whenever there is a change most people jump on the fence saying how bad it is. embrace change its how things evolve! 15bps bring it on its better than 22bps (trust me i know).

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by Intheno
...when running to bunker someone up close the traditional ramping guns as seen last season would rarely kick in when running to bunker someone, so that person generally would get shot about 8 times (rough estimate)
With 15bps full auto that same person could easily be shot 30 times, at 300fps.

This same point was brought up yesterday in a conversation I had with a very well-informed person .

The NXL rules require that the first three shots be true semi before the full-auto kicks in. PSP requires the same but that a minimum rate (was it 5 trigger activations per second?) be pulled continuously to allow the enhancement; full auto isn't allowed.

Many of last year's cheaters had to get up to, say, eight activations per second to kick in the enhancement that suddenly took the ROF up to the maximum feed rate of the hopper-gun system. For the fastest setups out there that might approach 30bps (right?). Well, old man here can get to that threshold in a little over a half-second. With the PSP rules that might be cut down by about 1/4th of a second.

So wherein lies the substantial difference? Except the cheaters would be putting 30+ balls on someone's head rather than 15+?

Then what about the teeth that won't bite? As many have said eleventeen hundred times, a robot is only going to catch the ignorant schmuck that cheats in a way that the robot can catch it.

You bring up very valid points but, in all respect, there are holes in your argument.

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by FAMINE
When questioned on the other thread about an approx % of gun cheats in 2004, no answer was given. Personally I feel the problem is so minor...

No disrespect but where have you been? Where have you played?

I remember trying to answer that question on some thread and there is no way to answer that accurately. The main thing is that there were enough illegally blazing guns in the Millennium Series and in PSP (didn't attend any NPPL event but have heard it was the same) last year that it added up to a substantially unfair situation for those who didn't cheat. I mean, how many blazen cheaters (who were impossible to catch) does it take to make the whole playing field out of kilter and to encourage the non-cheaters (victims of unfairness) to jump into the cheating arms race?

I don't know why these objections keep coming back around in circles? It has been stated clearly: those of us who cared sweated blood last year and made ourselves very impopular with many players TRYING to stop the cheating and the bottom line is it is impossible under the existing rules and circumstances.

Again: you who criticize these suggestions, come up with a VIABLE alternative.

 

[FAMINE]

No scientific answer needed, just a rough %.

Last year we played the D7s, CC and a few others, and to be honest, couldnt say we went up against any gun cheaters, or if we did then it wasnt noticed.

But hey, if we bring this rule in, then im sure we will all notice it.

And again with the you come up with a better idea! Just because there is only one answer on the table right now, doesnt mean it is the right one!
Especially as the majority of people seem to be against it!

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by FAMINE
No scientific answer needed, just a rough %.

Last year we played the D7s, CC and a few others, and to be honest, couldnt say we went up against any gun cheaters, or if we did then it wasnt noticed.

But hey, if we bring this rule in, then im sure we will all notice it.

And again with the you come up with a better idea! Just because there is only one answer on the table right now, doesnt mean it is the right one!
Especially as the majority of people seem to be against it!

Majority? says who!

And again you harp on about another idea and this not being the right one. WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST????? the rules be kept the same? so un-enforceable rules.