2004 - It's Done- Merged

[Tyger]

But Tyger !

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff

So - to repeat myself - why have a flag in there at all ?

Becasue it provides a way to score points. And becasue it's tradition. Paintball is an enigma. We fear change, but embrace technological advances. (huh?)

It also provides some kind of object that's like other sports. The camera / audience knows the players have to take the flag to the other side. Ok, easy focal point to follow. In theory. Plus a "kill 'em all" game is kinda warlike, isn't it? With no objective other than to shoot to kill? The flag gives the 'sport' illusion...

That and I guess if it were just "Shoot 'em all" you'd lose a sponsorship opportunity. Flags with "Your logo here" are good money to a promoter.

For what it's worth, why don't we just boil it down to the absolute basics. Let's play on a field with four bunkers. Shoot 'em all, lots of bunkering opportunities, high excitement level too becasue you coauld have two people per bunker, from opposite teams. Hey, we could ge a lot of game sin a row there too...



-Tyger

 

[Furby]

I watched this week's Tip Clip...you looked like you'd done more than embrace your new technology....

Sorry...couldn't resist, Tyger...

 

[Baca Loco]

X-Ball in Philly

There's been lots of talk among players about how much interest X-Ball has for a mass audience or what other prospects might be out there, say the Davidson format or Y-Ball or whatever.

I say, give folks a reason to care about the game being played and the game won't turn the people away. Regardless of the format. The real problem is finding the hook.

I thought this was very interesting anecdotal info on a potential spectator audience.
There were upwards of twenty plus folks attending the Philly event specifically to watch Strange play Div. 1 X-Ball because they knew (or knew about) a single player on Strange and thought it would be cool to see what it was all about. Only two or three of the folks who came to watch had ever seen any sort of PB played before. [The player personally knew only a handful of the people who came to see him, and indirectly, his team play.]
Both the Strange-Dogs match-ups were tightly contested, more defensively oriented--at least in terms of the score--than is often the case or the expectation in X-Ball and guess what? They all thought it was awesome. Loved the game, loved the suspense, had no problems following what was going on, and were generally amazed by the whole PB thing. Literally unable to sit still or sit at all in the closing minutes of the championship match. And why?
Cause they had a hook that connected them to what they were seeing on the field. The same things that tie fans of any sport into passionate followers of their games--they had a reason to care about the team and the outcome.

Paintball didn't turn them off, it wasn't too confusing, it wasn't too long or any of the other things everyone seems to be concerned about.

Find a hook and PB can sell itself.

 

[raehl]

Alright, I'd been planning on keeping this in my back pocket, but I'll throw it into the public domain. Remember that you heard it here first.

We should play center-beach-ball. First team to get the beach ball across the other team's end line gets a point. You can carry it across, kick it across, or shoot it across. If your whole team tries to shoot the ball across, the other team will move and shoot your players out. If you go up 5 on 3 on your opponents, you should be able to shoot the ball across pretty easily. But if you shoot the ball too soon, your opponents can grab it and get control over it.

The only problem I havn't figured out yet is wind. Maybe you weight the ball down with water, or just play indoors all the time.

But it's a central object, and it changes the dynamic of the game away from eliminations, and being able to move the game ball from 100 ft away is definitely a concept totally new to sports.

Of course, I havn't actually tried this yet, so it may suck in practice.


Tyger: I didn't guess, I know that's your solution. And actually, if TV said "Let's use stock class", it would happen, no matter how much himming and hawing there was from whoever. And, honestly, it would be fun for all involved (and cheaper).

Maybe I can get a company to donate 20 stock class markers and we can make Collegiate World Cup stock class this year - that's certainly help our paint bill. I actually don't think our players would mind too much if they didn't have to buy equipment. You got 20 stock class markers lying around by chance?


Of course, center-beach-ball and stock probably don't work well together.


EDITED: more crap aimed at Steve D and completely immaterial to the thread was removed. Davidson has kept his comments related to the thread or specific questions directed to him.
Chris, if you wanna try and run the Davidson format down or Steve in general start another thread but keep it outta this one.

BL

 

[Tyger]

circular argument

Nick : We're arguing in a circle. I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree. I would like to see an expiremental tournament run with no flags, just to see if it's a good way to do it. It can't hurt, to try it once. And if you're right, hey, what can I say? But, let's try it out. See if it's got what it takes. But I don't think it would make it a better TV sport for live broadcast. If you're talking a post-production show, then sure.

Chris : If the "Telly" said we do it "This way", it would have to get backed up with bucks first. I mean, do you REALLY think that most players would willingly part with their monster toys unless ther was insentive? Some money tossed around makes everyone happy to follow the leader. I think that you'd see the major teams use slingshots if there was a load of cash waived under thier collective noses to do so. Sorry, history has proven me right. Not a bash, just the truth. If I can find my ESPN tapes from 1996, I'll show you.

(Edit add) Furb : Yeah? And? E-mag rocks, but wait 'till I film snapshooting.

And I realise this has gone off the topic of the first page, but I'm enjoying this.

-Tyger

 

[Alan Smith]

When considering the prospect of moving paintball into the world of television can we remember to keep our heads? Paintball is our sport and it is specific to itself and whilst there is value in looking to other sports to take clues and guidance, we should be careful not to turn paintball into something it’s not.

Paintball is a sport about eliminating the opposition, capturing their flag is to signal your teams win. Nick is correct that in tournament play the flag will generally not be considered until the opposition are eliminated, the flag is not the focus you are looking for. I agree the flag is out moded, after playing X-Ball this year one criticism has been that once everyone is eliminated you have to run back to get the flag, this ruins the flow of the game. All that is needed is a signal at the start gates that allows the team with live players to declare their win i.e. they run through eliminate the last two players then run up to the gate and strike the buzzer, point scored.

On the subject of central focus whilst I can see that paintball may benefit from a central focus in terms of filming I don’t believe sacrificing the nature of the game to achieve this is necessary. Simply put, if you have enough cameras with switched on cameramen and a skilled post production team along with a format that will provide enough footage the product can and will be awesome.

Baca is right about the hook, Nations Cup this year defiantly succeeded in getting the spectators involved supporting your national team broke down boundaries and the atmosphere was excellent. The biggest problem was the huge score lines, the games need to be closer to build suspense. Will a move to city based team names provide that hook?

Lastly as Colin suggests we need people that can promote the product. In paintball we have all of the resources it’s just a question of getting the right people into the think tank to agree a strategy and put the people in place to implement it. We need to be inclusive rather than exclusive, oh and paintball on TV should benefit everyone!

Oh and can Steve and Raehl please can-it…………

Alan

 

[Joe "get" Carter]

Idea for Joe-ball

Extending the idea of each side having a flag carrying player, it could be interesting to have an XBall style game where points are scored by the flag carrying player for occupying a key bunker for an alloted period of time. Perhaps the more crucial the bunker they occupied, the more points they would score for living there for say 20-30 seconds. Best to have key bunkers on or around the 50. They could then keep on getting points for every 20-30 seconds they managed to stay there.

Each game would have a fixed duration. It would be a short enough time for teams that pushed forward early to wrack up enough points to win, even if they all got shot out before the end. That way it would encourage players to move forward early and get their flag carrying player into a key spot. It then also put the onus on the other players to make bunker runs and sacrifice players to dig that player out. The main focus of the cameras could then also be on those bunkers where all the action would be taking place. Other areas of the game could then be shown, but only if they needed to be. To make it clear to everyone when a player had scored a point, a loud buzzer could go off every time they managed to sit in the bunker for enough time and the point would flash up on the scoreboard. When a flag carrier is shot, another player would have to move in and retrieve the flag to then become the active player.

Ta da! What, no applause? Still, do you see what I'm getting at?

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Alan Smith
When considering the prospect of moving paintball into the world of television can we remember to keep our heads? Paintball is our sport and it is specific to itself and whilst there is value in looking to other sports to take clues and guidance, we should be careful not to turn paintball into something it’s not.

Paintball is a sport about eliminating the opposition, capturing their flag is to signal your teams win. Nick is correct that in tournament play the flag will generally not be considered until the opposition are eliminated, the flag is not the focus you are looking for. I agree the flag is out moded, after playing X-Ball this year one criticism has been that once everyone is eliminated you have to run back to get the flag, this ruins the flow of the game. All that is needed is a signal at the start gates that allows the team with live players to declare their win i.e. they run through eliminate the last two players then run up to the gate and strike the buzzer, point scored.

On the subject of central focus whilst I can see that paintball may benefit from a central focus in terms of filming I don’t believe sacrificing the nature of the game to achieve this is necessary. Simply put, if you have enough cameras with switched on cameramen and a skilled post production team along with a format that will provide enough footage the product can and will be awesome.

Baca is right about the hook, Nations Cup this year defiantly succeeded in getting the spectators involved supporting your national team broke down boundaries and the atmosphere was excellent. The biggest problem was the huge score lines, the games need to be closer to build suspense. Will a move to city based team names provide that hook?

Lastly as Colin suggests we need people that can promote the product. In paintball we have all of the resources it’s just a question of getting the right people into the think tank to agree a strategy and put the people in place to implement it. We need to be inclusive rather than exclusive, oh and paintball on TV should benefit everyone!

Oh and can Steve and Raehl please can-it…………

Alan

Al, if TV wants paintball to be something it is not then believe me, people will be jumping thru hoops to give TV exactly what it wants.
As soon as paintball gets close to the point where TV is seriously considering showing it, then principled ideals concerning formats and precedence are thrown outa the window in a frikkin heartbeat.

The smart people among paintball's pundits realise that TV adopting paintball creates a potential chasm between what is being played at grass roots and what is being televised.
The consequences of this I will let others debate but never lose sight of the fact that there is nothing inviolate regarding paintball when money is being waved around.

I don't particularly agree with your synopsis of Nation's cup breaking down anything that hadn't been broken down before in normal-ball.

As for identifying the right people who are willing and able to do the job of promoting our sport to the right people in the media, well there's the 64, 000 dollar question.
Laurent certainly has the credentials and experience and has been on this for the last five years or so but with little success when it comes to getting paintball on to the TV in any structured presentation instead of the news item format it has been thus far.

The other avenues to explore are outside sponsorship deals which I know many people have been tinkering with but still, even Laurent, has had little success when it comes to attracting the big buck into our sport.
Now as I see it, we either get new people in to do this job, or we wait until Laurent or somebody else cracks it, or we just give up on the idea. The latter is not really an option but we may end up with it by default.
You say we have the resources ?
We can't even agree what format is best to court outside sponsors / media let alone come up with a significant amount of money to funnel into sport promotion.
This process that we employ, is gonna be slow and it's gonna be cheap unless somebody with a rocket up his ass comes into paintball with plenty of dosh and does a
‘Roman Abramovich’ in paintball.

 

[TJ Lambini]

as far as tha Euro scene goes

Hey chromedome, since you're on here, here's something for you...

I happen to know that a certain Russian - no, not that one, but a famouse baller - is flying into tha UK in a few days time for certain meetings with certain people about formats, leagues and various other top secret plans he has in his head.

Come to think of it, I expect you already know about this, but it kinda suggests to me that tha Russians ain't decided where and what they're playing next year. Care to comment?

 

[Robbo]

as far as tha Euro scene goes

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Hey chromedome, since you're on here, here's something for you...

I happen to know that a certain Russian - no, not that one, but a famouse baller - is flying into tha UK in a few days time for certain meetings with certain people about formats, leagues and various other top secret plans he has in his head.

Come to think of it, I expect you already know about this, but it kinda suggests to me that tha Russians ain't decided where and what they're playing next year. Care to comment?

I couldn't possibly comment......