airsoft pisses on paintball

[Mark]

Rancid I see your point about visitor figures (despite that they are way off on web hits cos the page rarely loads properly first go, so that bumps the figures). Money is of course wheres its at, you are a biz not a charity, but given the great diversity of "shooting" mags (bloody WH Smiths still put PGI next to air gunner etc, they would sell way more copies if it was with the snowboarding/bmx section, try a little pressure to see if they will move it?) do we really need to dilute "our" mag anymore. if you were to put an Airsoft section in PGI I would continue to buy it only I would be skipping a few extra pages rather than just the Joe Schmoe one currently. BTW I buy computer mags and skip the pages about game reviews so it isn't just your mag I buy that doesn't get totally read

 

[Henry.B]

screw airsoft

how can airsoft be a legitimate wargame even? i went with a friend once who bums airsoft to a site in, um, chobham. i got chucked out of a game for "point blanking" (ie. bunkering) two walk on players.

also i saw loads of ppl playin on after being hit. how can the game work if the ammo doesn't even mark u and the ppl playin it don't have the honesty to call themselves out when hit.

airsot also appears to be overall cheaper than paintball (but also significantly crappier). if we're tryin to introduce new players to paintball and they see airsoft, who knows whether they'll just go get a BB gun and go play pretend "war"

also associating paintball with realistic weapons isn't gonna help the sport get accepted.

lol sup'airsoft<crap

 

[rancid]

Originally posted by Mark
Rancid I see your point about visitor figures (despite that they are way off on web hits cos the page rarely loads properly first go, so that bumps the figures).


Mark, I ain't techy at all, but as I understand it our figures are based on unique visitors, not page impressions. And the uv's are calculated by using cookies and... no, that's as far as my knowledge goes. I'm just assured it's accurate. So we're talking individuals here. (ps get a new computer, that Spectrum's had it.)


(bloody WH Smiths still put PGI next to air gunner etc, they would sell way more copies if it was with the snowboarding/bmx section, try a little pressure to see if they will move it?) QUOTE]

We're on this campaign every single month! You wouldn't believe the lengths we go.... we've even had the merchandising side of the distributors travelling round speaking to individual shop managers, and then shifting the mags themselves. Next month they are back next to Gun Mart. We try not to think about it too much cos it's upsetting.

 

[GoatBoy]

First of Rancid – nice one on producing one of the most thought provoking threads for some time.

My knee jerk reaction was – NO. But then I began to think about your proposal and I think you’ve brought up a number of different issues here. The first thing that struck me is not entirely related to your main questions “should PGI carry AirSoft adverts and Articles?”:

We’re talking about three similar yet significantly different activities:

AirSoft – people using replica BB guns to play a game, which imulates combat. The objective being to shoot and hit the opposite team members in order to eliminate them from the game.

Rec-Ball – people using paintball guns to play a game which emulates combat. The objective being to shoot and hit the opposite team members in order to eliminate them from the game.

Tourney Ball – people using paintball guns to play a game. The objective being to shoot and hit the opposite team members in order to eliminate them from the game.


In my eyes, Rec-ball and AirSoft are very similar, with only the realism element of the guns and the method of marking a hit being different. Tourney, is different in small but crucial ways. Tourney has tried everything to move the activity away from resembling combat ( Sup Air, Standard team sizes, No use of Cammo on guns or clothing, recognised sport structure i.e. leagues – tournaments etc)

With this in mind I’d say there are two audiences/markets out there, and in essence products and articles for AirSoft and Rec Ball punters could be effectively lumped together and marketing to players of both formats effectively.

Tourney players have a completely differently interests and needs and would not react to products aimed at the other market.

To my mind it would make more sense to produce a magazine aimed at rec ball and airsoft, and another purely for tourney players. I realise that this is probably not economically viable given the low number of tourney players out there, but hey … you asked.

 

[Buddha 3]

screw airsoft

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
whoever said real gun ads in pgi is a good idea was right - every baller in tha US carries a firearm so you got a captive market.

That was me! See, I do have a point on occasion...
Anyway, I don't think Rancid is too serious about this, after all he admitted to campaigning to have PGI placed well away from 'Gunz r us' in the more established bookstores.
However, there is a good point to all this. We are a niche market, and therefore easily targeted.
At the moment most of the ads you see are paintball related, but why would there not be ads that are not paintball related, but targeted at us none the less?
I know a lot of 'ballers drive 4by4's, so if paintball starts to show some proper growth, I can imagine Toyota or whatever putting in an add for their new truck. There are plenty of other opportunities one can dream up. International player? You might just be interested in airlines. Perhaps a nice way for Easyjet to approach Millennium players in Europe. Same goes for hotel chains.
See where I'm going with this?

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Originally posted by GoatBoy
Tourney Ball – people using paintball guns to play a game. The objective being to shoot and hit the opposite team members in order to eliminate them from the game.

Noooo, the objective being to capture and return the opposition flag (or take the flag to the oppositions start station in the case of center flag).

So Tourney is WAAAAAAAAAY different to rec-ball even.

 

[Baca Loco]

OK, a couple more things. Goatboy has it right on how to differentiate potential marketplaces and probably has it right on the economic prospects.
I also think however, there is a clear trend away from rec-ball has it has been played in the past. (I also think PGI has subtly been altering not so much the content but the way it is packaged in part because of this trending away from traditional rec-ball but that's another topic.)
Here in Florida if all you operate is a woods-based field(s) you're going out of business. And it isn't just a Florida thing. Over the past three to five years the new generation of young ballers have been brought up on tourney style play. 98% of all paintball marketing is tourney oriented. Every marker now made is advertised as tourney ready. The day is coming when traditional rec-ball will look like tourney lite and Airsoft doesn't really have a place.
Having said that though I don't see a problem with the odd advert here or there in the meantime as I generally ignore all the ads anyway but any such ads will be in opposition to the changing image of paintball and the perceptions that most ballers want to have of themselves.

 

[Rich S]

who wants a heated debate?

Originally posted by rancid

Anyway, by the by.... anyone want to 'come out' and push for airsoft in the mag? I mean, why the f should pgi be responsible for paintball's image?

because at the moment there are only a few people loking out for paintballs image and trying to improve that image; PGI, UKPSF and occasionally players when they talk to people about paintball.
most people who are not paintballers seem to either be against paintball or don't care. take the papers recently, one kid gets shot in the eye playing with a piece of plastic that shoots paintballs, his mother should have been supervising him (on the box it says that supervision is required . she and the reporter have gone and say that paintball is a war game and should be banned etc.
this puts paintball in to a bad light, 1) we dont want to be seen as a war game 2) we want people to know if you play it at a controlled site then it is safe.
if pgi were to start putting adverts or articles for air soft, people may have been reading a pgi from somewhere to see what it is all about cause people say that paintball is not a war game, and when they read it they see an air soft stuff. they then link paintball and air soft together and come to the conclusion that paintball is a war game.
air soft has many mags for its self, in the UK we have pgi and facefull (the FHM for paintball) for paintball. we don't need air soft and air soft does not need us.

and if you don't thnik i have the credentials to speak of this - my brother is currently on the european championship winning team (england) and was voted player of the championship. so airsoft and paintball is talked about a lot in my family.

 

[Tyger]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Here in Florida if all you operate is a woods-based field(s) you're going out of business.

Umm... Moo man?

I've played in Florida. Most of the fields there are arena style fields for two reasons.

1) Anything that might resemble woods to you is usually swamp, and impossible to move through without fighting off alligators.

2) Anyone who plays in the daytime gets their brain fried out by the heat. So you play at night, so you play under lights, so you play in an arena field.

Besides, explain Waynes World in Ocala? Or Paintball World near Kissimee? Woods aint dead yet.

But I still don't think that Airsoft has a place in PGI.

-Tyger

 

[Alex Hicks.]

NO! Airsoft is attempting to emulate war, this is not the image paintball is looking for. Airsoft guns even look like real guns, do we really want to be associated with these replica weapons that are currently resposible for a large percentage of the 'armed' robbery and crime reported? Personally I think anything that looks like a real weapon should be banned. Don't bring our sport into disripute by associating us with that.