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Bought an SP-1

Thats what you get for being such a trusting person but then again maybe they are not full of BS and you just used the wrong finger or maybe you should have used you tongue instead.

Seriously, when I bought mine the guy in the shop stuck his finger in without any consequences.

No I am not getting the blackhart board. I am probably not getting any upgrade board even though I am getting the bolt. Too many good reviews to pass it up. Besides efficiency the reduced noise signature is quite interesting.

Also still researching how to reduce the noise with a choice of a barrel and barrel inserts. Quite a few people reported a 10-15% increase of fps with the use of an insert. If I get the same I can turn the air down even more improving efficiency and dropping the noise level.

The above is the extent to which I intend to go with the upgrades. Don't need higher bps and don't want to go with all the chop/break risks just for additional insignificant efficiency.
I hope by bolt you dont mean firebolt!
Uselelss things...



If you want your gun to shoot quiet you should get a heavily ported barrel. Far more effective than messing about with barrel inserts.
If you want efficiency you need to reduce the volume in your gun and increase the pressure.
 
Dec 12, 2008
34
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upgrades

I have an SP1 which I put a virtue board and L7 bolt in + Rotor. Both have increased efficency and ROF (14.5 bps with virtually 0 breaks, although better paint helps). I have other markers but this def my favourite setup for scenario games, with a 1.1L 4500psi bottle I can shoot all the paint I can carry with a good fill. Hope this helps. As for noise get a longer barrel or freak but personally I like it!
 

MrWizard2U

Mutated to Perfection
Mar 21, 2009
32
0
0
wizzard.bravehost.com
I hope by bolt you dont mean firebolt!
Uselelss things...
Of course not, L7 definitely.

If you want your gun to shoot quiet you should get a heavily ported barrel. Far more effective than messing about with barrel inserts.
Thinking of it but want to keep the tactical look as well.

If you want efficiency you need to reduce the volume in your gun and increase the pressure.
Sorry I don't get it. I thought less pressure gets you less of a bang.

I have an SP1 which I put a virtue board and L7 bolt in + Rotor.
What is a Rotor?

Both have increased efficency and ROF (14.5 bps with virtually 0 breaks, although better paint helps).
Did you fiddle with the dwell or the virtue board has a different factory setting then the stock SP-1 board? Does it also mean you have a QEV?
 
Of course not, L7 definitely.
Glad to hear it.

Thinking of it but want to keep the tactical look as well.
You can get some heavily ported barrels with a tactical look. Longer barrels and straight bore barrels are generally quieter too.
Just keep in mind the barrel affects the sound of your marker far more than anything else.

Sorry I don't get it. I thought less pressure gets you less of a bang.
But your shooting the same velocity.
So less pressure needs a larger volume of air to shoot the ball at the same speed.
The physics buffs will tell us the energy stored in the air must be the same, which is correct. But lower pressure introduces more losses. I can go into details if you insist :eek:

We do the 'epiphany' mod on our ions. Except we use plastic plumbers couplings which just happen to fit nicely in the ion.


What is a Rotor?
Dyes New hopper.
A very smart one.


Did you fiddle with the dwell or the virtue board has a different factory setting then the stock SP-1 board? Does it also mean you have a QEV?
The board wont give extra efficiency but the bolt will.
Because its tail less it doesnt vent out the back when its firing like the stock ion does.
 

JamesH

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2009
397
2
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birmingham
John there's nothing wrong with the firebolt i use it....

I also have a virtue board they are MEAN, i love it haha. using a membrane pad too.

i also have a QEV And epiphany upgrades.

im running my pressure at 110psi and my Dwell at 8 :)
 

MrWizard2U

Mutated to Perfection
Mar 21, 2009
32
0
0
wizzard.bravehost.com
But your shooting the same velocity.
So less pressure needs a larger volume of air to shoot the ball at the same speed.
The physics buffs will tell us the energy stored in the air must be the same, which is correct. But lower pressure introduces more losses. I can go into details if you insist :eek:

We do the 'epiphany' mod on our ions. Except we use plastic plumbers couplings which just happen to fit nicely in the ion.
If you don't mind I would appreciate more info to try to sort this out and get the confusion out of my head. As I understand it:

Assuming all other factors are the same (bolt, barrel, dwell, etc.) In order to maintain the same fps by dropping air volume or air pressure you need to increase the other and therefore the same bang. By changing any one of the factors (bolt, barrel, dwel, etc.) you hope to improve the efficiency and therefore are able to drop either the air volume or air pressure while still maintaining the same fps.
  • If I use a lighter bolt it takes less air volume or pressure to drive it therefore higher efficiency and less bang.
  • If I use an insert I get a better ball to barrel fit and consequently don't waste air through the gaps between the barrel and the ball so I need less air volume or pressure to push the ball out at the same speed. Just need to make sure I don't use a too small insert in order to not need more air volume or pressure to overcome the friction between the ball and barrel. So again higher efficiency and less bang.
  • Heavy porting comes in play after the ball has achieved max velocity by going through a snugly fitting insert. From that moment it is just a question of releasing the air as gradually as possible in order to get more of a hiss and less of a bang. During this faze the velocity of the ball might actually be dropping.
John there's nothing wrong with the firebolt i use it....
Most of the users agree with you but they also agree that the improvement over the stock bolt is marginal.

I also have a virtue board they are MEAN, i love it haha. using a membrane pad too.
What is a membrane pad?

i also have a QEV And epiphany upgrades.

im running my pressure at 110psi and my Dwell at 8 :)
Stock 180psi, don't know the stock dwell but must be higher as well. I assume that means that you have significantly improved efficiency by having reduced both the air pressure and air volume. That should mean less bang and sounds good to me.


I could be all wrong about this but that is the picture in my head. Please correct me if I am wrong so I don't go off spending money on completely the wrong stuff.

By the way how do you measure the psi in your marker?
 

ALIHISGREAT

Active Member
Jan 7, 2009
109
0
26
Quietness doesn't really matter too much, on the field unless you want to play sniper/recon (and i'm talking about paintball sniping i.e. being a lone wolf and sneaking around) i would actually love a louder marker for intimidation.

a membrane pad is an on/off pad that you stick to the back of the gripframe to replace the smart parts on/off button (it might also have more options than the stock button which simply turns it on/off and switches eyes on/off

and he can check the pressure because he has an ION which has a gauge on the gripframe unlike the SP-1
 

ALIHISGREAT

Active Member
Jan 7, 2009
109
0
26
ok then, you need to lower the operating pressure by using a new bolt, either the deadlywind or the techt bolt... both will take the pop/bang out of the shot more.

A heavily ported barrel is also a good idea and a proper silencer isn't too hard to make either.

edit: carbon fibre barrels like the Stiffi are supposed to be very quiet indeed but basically a barrel with lots and lots of porting is what you need, then with a silencer over the top.
 
If you don't mind I would appreciate more info to try to sort this out and get the confusion out of my head. As I understand it:

Assuming all other factors are the same (bolt, barrel, dwell, etc.) In order to maintain the same fps by dropping air volume or air pressure you need to increase the other and therefore the same bang. By changing any one of the factors (bolt, barrel, dwel, etc.) you hope to improve the efficiency and therefore are able to drop either the air volume or air pressure while still maintaining the same fps.

[*]If I use a lighter bolt it takes less air volume or pressure to drive it therefore higher efficiency and less bang.
Correct. But with the difference in bolt weight being very small, and the distance the bolt has to move small. this effect is marginal.

The Stock bolt loses alot of air out of the tail when its moving.
If you take the body cover off and fire the gun you can feel this blast of air. This is much more significant than the energy needed to move the bolt.

Thats why most bolts alter the design of the tail area, either by adding more orings or removing the tail completely, to give an improvement in efficiency.

Thats also why the QEV helps the efficiency of a stock ion so much, but an upgraded ion less so. Because it speeds up the bolt giving less time for wasting air.

[*]If I use an insert I get a better ball to barrel fit and consequently don't waste air through the gaps between the barrel and the ball so I need less air volume or pressure to push the ball out at the same speed. Just need to make sure I don't use a too small insert in order to not need more air volume or pressure to overcome the friction between the ball and barrel. So again higher efficiency and less bang.
Remember the paintball travels the length of the barrel in a blink of an eye.
Air takes the path of least resistance, which is not squeezing past the crack between a speeding paintball and the barrel wall.

You have to overbore by quite a bit before you really see changes in efficiency.

Those in the business of selling multi peice barrel kits, will claim increased efficiency, accuracy and whatever else they can think of from sizing your barrel to the paint.
Its not based on actual evidence, testing or anything like that.
Its just made up to get you to part with your cash. They would tell you it would increase the size of your wedding tackle if they thought it would get you to buy it.

The reality is most people use one large bore barrel for large paint and one medium for the rest, because there is no difference from messing around with kits and inserts.

[*]Heavy porting comes in play after the ball has achieved max velocity by going through a snugly fitting insert. From that moment it is just a question of releasing the air as gradually as possible in order to get more of a hiss and less of a bang. During this faze the velocity of the ball might actually be dropping.
Yes, got it in one. The noise comes from a very quick change from high pressure to atmospheric pressure.
A ported section allows that transition to happen slower. Causing a longer sound which contains similar energy but doesnt seem like as harsh of a bang.

Thats why the barrel has the largest effect on sound signature compared to anything else.
Get hold of a 4 inch barrel and you will know what I mean haha...


What is a membrane pad?
Its a little 2 button pad people stick to the back of their ions grip frame in preference to the annoying stock button.

Stock 180psi, don't know the stock dwell but must be higher as well. I assume that means that you have significantly improved efficiency by having reduced both the air pressure and air volume. That should mean less bang and sounds good to me.
Lowering both the pressure and the volume will reduce the velocity your paintballs are firing at.
You can either have a high pressure, small volume, less efficiency losses.
Or low pressure, large volume, high efficiency losses.

I could be all wrong about this but that is the picture in my head. Please correct me if I am wrong so I don't go off spending money on completely the wrong stuff.
Seems like you got your head around most of it.
There is alot of snake oil in the Ion upgrades market.

I shouldnt be so critical of some of the products.
But it upsets me when somebody sees an ion with (for example) a hollow point or an L7 and off the back of that they go and buy one of these non-upgrades like the firebolt. (ALIHISGREAT there is nothing wrong with the firebolt, its just not really an ugprade).

Its no wonder alot of people sell their ions after upgrading.

The only way to be sure about most upgrades is to get hold of one and judge it for yourself.


By the way how do you measure the psi in your marker?
You can make a pressure tester that screws on to your reg out of an old ASA and a pressure gauge.





Just for reference, our teams ion setups are 220psi with a volume spacer.
Always L7 or hollowpoint bolt.

Those with QEV, the dwell is around 12-18.
Without QEV (but with mac noid) dwells around 28-32.

Our Ions can be set to shoot 300fps with 100psi and a dwell of 8.
Its just that in the interests of maintainig perfect concistency during rapid fire, we choose not to set them up that way.