cocker experts wanted, apply within !

[manike]

Originally posted by diablo66
while were at it, if your mini's apply there brakes at the same time but one has discs, the other drums then they will decelerate differently! NER NER NAH NER NER !!!!!!

They wouldn't be subjected to the same acceleration (negative) forces then would they?

That's like saying a paintball fired in water won't go as far as a paintball fired in air (different resistance and thus different negative accelerations). Obvious.

 

[Tom Allen]

Originally posted by diablo66
Ahhh there you are !
Can you help me, i have a new pro-stock cocker which can't match the range of other pro-guns?
stood side by side with my mates shocker and impulse, all being crono'd at the same velocity, i simply don't have the range they have.
theoretically if all guns are fired at 300fps then the balls should surely travel the same distance, if not why?
Do barrels make the difference or are there other factors?
I'm not worried about fire rate, weight, shiney anodising or the latest must have accesory but i do need to match other guns range.
Any idea's guys?

I think we're getting away from the initial question here guys.

There are quite a few variables here, paintball size, shape and weight. Marker design and operating pressure, barrel to paint match. The only consistent thing is the initial velocity over the chrony, which we all agree must mean the ball leaves the barrel at the same speed above the chrony on all the markers. Somewhere between this and the target there is a loss, some will say that lower pressure markers fire flatter than higher pressure markers. Or closed bolt markers are by design more accurate than open bolt markers.

Spin on the ball will definitely make a difference, as all golf players know. You have top spin on a ball and it will fall quicker, back spin and it will hold longer. Take football and Beckhams curve ball, if you spin a ball it will change direction.
Could be the answer..??

 

[John C]

But a paintball naturally doesnt like to spin.

Even with rifling the best you could do is spin the outer shell, leaving the fill, which is the main mass of the projectile stationary.



As Manike has expertly put, the only real contol you have on range is the weight of your paintballs.

 

[Lucky]

Thanks for breaking up the banter tom,
i have to go home now as i have a life !, but would be interested to know our friendly rocket scientists theory as to why i was losing distance against my competitors?
I was just trying to sum this up and put the thread to bed in an easy to understand kind of way, if Mr Pedantic can close this thread off better then feel free to top my efforts, i'm only interested in getting my gun firing further and if i can spread a little love and understanding along the way then my life will be fulfilled.
Thanks to the rest of you anyway

 

[John C]

Originally posted by diablo66
Thanks for breaking up the banter tom,
i have to go home now as i have a life !, but would be interested to know our friendly rocket scientists theory as to why i was losing distance against my competitors?
I was just trying to sum this up and put the thread to bed in an easy to understand kind of way, if Mr Pedantic can close this thread off better then feel free to top my efforts, i'm only interested in getting my gun firing further and if i can spread a little love and understanding along the way then my life will be fulfilled.
Thanks to the rest of you anyway

Either
Your Gun is putting paint or grease on the balls it fires, ruining their aerodynamics.

The guns you are comparing yours to have a device to artificcialy induce top spin(ie flatline), which gives more range at the expense of accuracy.

Your opponents are able to increase their chrono velocity without exceeding 300fps because their guns are more concistent than yours.

Your paintballs are lighter than your opponents.


or a combination of the above...

 

[Tom Allen]

Originally posted by John C
But a paintball naturally doesnt like to spin.

Even with rifling the best you could do is spin the outer shell, leaving the fill, which is the main mass of the projectile stationary.



As Manike has expertly put, the only real contol you have on range is the weight of your paintballs.

John, I'm not on about spin created by rifling, i mean spin created by an imbalance of air on the ball when it is fired, giving the ball top spin.

 

[Tom Allen]

Originally posted by diablo66
same paint
same day
same time
same gas
same crono
etc etc etc
I would expect to lose out on accuracy over an expensive gun but not range if the velocity's the same.
Over shorter ranges i can hold my own with the best of them, but not at a distance. We even tried swapping guns to eliminate operator error.
We crono'd the guns many times to check for inconsistancy and were just a few FPS apart each time, (sometimes mine was reading higher).
Over to you boys ?

If there was a contaminate like oil or grease you would see the balls go in any direction, not just down. Same paint, same everything, just different markers. One thing i would suggest is to get a pro chrono and check the guns at a distance of around 15 feet from the chrony, to see if there is any difference in speed over a direct end of barrel reading.

 

[John C]

Originally posted by Tom Allen
John, I'm not on about spin created by rifling, i mean spin created by an imbalance of air on the ball when it is fired, giving the ball top spin.

It is possible, but I cant imagine how it would cause spin...

Any external force i can think of, which would cause a conventional projectile to spin will only cause the shell to spin on a paintball.

 

[Tom Allen]

Could be the direction the air is fed to the ball, angels direct the air up through the bolt and out into the breech, basically making a "u-turn" which must upset the airflow a lot.

 

[John C]

Im not an expert on fluid dynamics so I cant even guess at that one.

Alot of the gas cone stuff Ricey was telling me about was just going whoosh, right over my head!!!


But I am going to have a guess anyway
You would surely see a much bigger difference between guns if that were the case.
I think this pressure difference(on different parts of the ball. That is what we are talking about? right?) , if it existed would cause a less or more efficient change of energy (potential -> kinetic) and may spin or deform the shell of the ball more than in a different design.

But again none of this would manage to spin the fill inside the paintball.