Gym workout.

[john251282]

Cleaning training I would expect means training withou the help of steroids.

I will try and find some links but some of the top journals have subscribtion requirements so you might only get abstracts.

 

[john251282]

Instead of giving you a link I have found a lovely pic for you. It clearly shows that there is advantage in taking more that about 1.7g/kg even for strength training athletes.

I have taken this picture from the Journal of the American College of Nutrition

 

[Robbo]

Cleaning training I would expect means training withou the help of steroids.
.

Oh .... My ..... God !!!! - you mean people actually go to the gym and train without the use of roids???????????.....Damnit, I knew I was doing something wrong

 

[Deker]

no offence bud but that 'evidence' is severely lacking...

Without the qualifying data that graph is useless, apart from it being 8 years out of date there's no information as to what the author is backing his claims up with - what is an academic strength athlete? someone who goes to the gym 20 mins a day twice a week or a professional power lifter???? what is the RDA based on? a 140 pound guy with a physically demanding job or a 200 pound desk jockey?

You're expecting us to believe you're 'highly qualified in sports' how? can you back this up, all it looks like at the minute is that's you're at uni writing your dissertation... I did one of those in business studies... doesn't make me Alan Sugars financial advisor.


Robbo.. do people actually drink tuna shakes??? I though it was a wind up when I was told about them.

 

[john251282]

My life does not evolve around this very boring arguement. So I quickly posted up the first suitable journal from a respected publisher and author and instead of linking to a site and having to read through thousands of words I just picked a simple diagram that explained it.

How about you show me a respected study that proves a vastly higher intake is needed?

 

[Tommeh]

john im seriously liking your sig with the star wars thing thats mint and this protein an carb thing is boring as hell how about we talk about exercises an stuff?

 

[john251282]

Thanks I have had loads of PMs about it too saying how much they like it.

Only thing about exercises is that it can be really difficult to describe proper technique, and technique is vastly more important than weight or reps.

 

[Deker]

Here's ya go then bud, 'proof' high protein intake does not affect kidneys (we know it's needed for muscle repair so it's obvious that the more you damage the muscle the more protein it takes to repair it and build it stronger!):

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Mar;10(1):28-38
Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?
Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O.

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1999 Nov;23(11):1170-7
Changes in renal function during weight loss induced by high vs low-protein low-fat diets in overweight subjects.
Skov AR, Toubro S, Bulow J, Krabbe K, Parving HH, Astrup A.

Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7
Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. "Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons."

If you're interested, these studies can be accessed at www.pubmed.com.

Some studies in healthy individuals do show an alteration of kidney function with very high protein diets. However, it's important to note that these changes are not reported as negative or "adverse." Instead, they seem to be structural adaptations to increased filtration (something the kidneys are doing all the time anyway).

If the kidney didn't respond this way, most clinicians would think something was wrong. Just like in weight training, tissues adapt to the demands put on them. Therefore, just because the kidneys have to "work" harder, doesn't mean that this is a negative thing.

After all, what happens when muscles work harder? Well, they adapt to the demands and become bigger, stronger, or more efficient. Therefore, the adaptation that kidneys undergo is reasonable and appropriate.

But don't take my word for it, check out this study (again at www.pubmed.com):

Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.

 

[john251282]

Oh we are back on that now are we. But what proof is there that excess(above 1.7g) protein does anything good?

I only loosely even mentioned the kidney thing because it is linked with steroid use and excess protein intake.

I don't know if you are aware of what ethical approval is but no study would be allowed to get up to the sort of levels of protein intake that some BBs take. And I had a quick look through some of the data they used and their "high" doses were in the region 2.8g. And I have known some people to take upto about 5-8g/kg. And no commitee would ever grant approval for such a high dose.


I will come back to the main point I made right at the start what is the point in comsuming more than 1.4-1.7g/kg. Or do you just like giving extra money to you supermarket or sports nutrition shop.

 

[Robbo]

I'm afraid there is an opinion to be found on the net somewhere for almost every position you wanna adopt for any given subject.
In fact, if you dig deep enough, you can find research papers filed that will also contradict each other which is rather troublesome when we look toward definitive work to bring some clarity to proceedings.

For the most part, when you look into a subject such as protein synthesis, you have to go with the majority and not select some niche research to support a position that you may favour for whatever reason.

The same can be said across the subject matter of this thread. Now I didn't get my degree in biology but I know enough to know to not indulge in radicalism when it comes to subjects like this.

John, I think some of the suggestions you make are somewhat contentious and do actually go against mainstream thinking but I'll discuss these when I call you.

I detest debates that end up as 'copy and paste' duels because they descend into nonsense and are practically useless when trying to get to the truth of the matter.

Is there a doctor in the house?