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Maths Quiz.

john251282

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2005
1,212
23
63
Bristol
www.google.co.uk
Lets see if I can remember my A-level maths.

Theoretical packing efficiency in a object which is multiple of the balls radius is about 60%, I believe. Or best case 74%(Hexagonal Close Packing, if memory serves me).

Bearing volume= roughly 8.18mm(cubed)
Box volume= 1000mm x 1000mm x 1000mm= 1,000,000,000 mm(cubed)
1 x 10(9) divided by 8.18= 122,249,380(sorry using crap work calculator so not sure what last digit should be)

Best case packing efficiency= 90,464,541 balls (surface area = 19.635 x n= 1,776,271,262.535 mm(squared))
Worst=73,349,628balls (SA= 19.635 X N= 1,440,219,945.78 mm(squared))

I had forgotten how much harder it is to do stuff like this without a scientific calculator :)
 

seany boy

(. Y .)
May 25, 2005
577
0
41
York / Manchester
Visit site
Why doesn't anyone show their working?
It's wrong. I calculated the volume of the sphere wrong as didn't times by pi at the end so the volume I got was 2.6041666666666666666666666666667 instead of 8.1812308697916666666666666666667.

Anyway, my working for my initial answer was:

I was working on the theory that close packed spheres leave 77.96% ball space and the rest air space.

Volume of 77.96% of box is 779600000

779600000 divided by 2.6041666666666666666666666666667 = 299366400 (initial wrong answer)

-----------------------------------------

New working:

Volume of sphere is 8.1812308697916666666666666666667

779600000 divided by volume of sphere = 95291284 ball bearings

Total surface area = 19.6349540875 x 95291284 = 1871039986.27892335mm Squared

Think it's the right workings just don't know if the percentage of ball space is correct.
 

Skeet

Platinum Member
Well, here's goes GCSE maths:D

I also noted that each sphere would likely interlock and not space itself out evenly.

Drawing two circles, orientated thus : in Paint, then placing another circle as close in between them as possible, it appeared, to allow about 1 12th of it's width, between the other two.

Got some 2p pieces to check that and with two next to each other, you can get about 3mm of a third 2p, into the gap. a 2p is about 26mm across, so that is 11.539% of its width.

Calculating the actual numbers, obviously, your first row would contain 400 bearings.

Although I am no maths wizard and I know the question relates to what I now know as "Sphere packing", it does specify ball bearings.

Ball bearings are made of steel which has a density (just Googled it) of 7.85g cm^3.

So the mass of each bearing

By aligning the second row into the gaps of the first, it would occupy less width, but would contain one less bearing.

So if my guess at 11.539% reduction in width is correct, each two rows in the bottom layer, would contain 799 bearings, but would only occupy 4.42305mm.

We know 400 rows at least will fit, so 200 x 4.42305 = 884.61mm

This then leaves a remainder of 115.39mm, which if we divide by 4.42305 we get 26 and a bit.

As those 26 are two rows with 799 bearings in each, plus the 200 pairs of rows we already know about, 226 pairs of rows containing 799 bearings, will occupy the first layer.

First layer contains 180,574 bearings.

So now we need to know what the second layer will hold.

This started to get complicated, thinking in 3 dimensions. Mrs Skeet, brought home some spare wedding cupcakes. I ate one. I noticed that I had had to remove it from a small square box.
I found some old paint, plopped them in and noticed that:

Each bearing will sit on top of the next below it, so each layer, should be identical in cross section, assuming you stack the balls. I had occurred to me, that they would naturally want to fit, "pile o cannonballs" style, but that does not mean that they have to, and would also mean less balls in each second layer, by quite some way.

So, hopefully if we stack them as such, then we can get 400 vertical rows and still be within the confines of the box.

So that would be 400 x 180,574 which is 72,229,600 bearings.

Gonna have to Google the surface area of a sphere.

4piR2 apparently, so that would be 19.625mm (pi @ 3.14)

So total surface area of the bearings would be

72,229,600 x 19.625 = 1,417,505,900 mm squared. (1,417.505900 square meters)

Am I close? If I am, can I have a free Platinum membership please Robbo?:cool:!

SkeetEDIT: Right then. Having slept on this, I have decided to further stretch my GCSE maths. Naturally, I do not expect to compete with those who know about "Close Packing Theory" and what not, but it can be fun to do what one can, with what one has.

Sooo...

If each layer stacked up as you would expect and not in columns, then (thinking in complete layers, and as I type), then each layer will move one half row in two directions, which would mean it would lose one row of bearings from two sides. I cant tell if that will be a long or short row, so I will have to accept a loss of one or 2 bearings per row from my (probably waste of time) calculations.

So the second layer, might contain 399 rows or 199.5 pairs of rows containing 796 bearings.

Vertical reduction of the layer should be the same as the horizontal reduction on the bottom so;

The second layer would contain 158802 bearings.

So the first two layers, would contain 158802 + 180574 bearings = 339376 bearings per two layers at a height of 4.42305mm

Again, we can fit 226 pairs of layers so, drum roll please:

Using GCSE maths, I estimate that the box could contain 339376 x 226 bearings

= 76,698,976 bearings

with a surface area of 76,698,976 x 19.625mm^2

= 1,505,217,404mm^2 (1505.217404m^2)

I then wondered...after all this hard work, would I have room for a beer or two?

Volume of each bearing is (pi @ 3.14) 8.177083 mm^3

So the volume of the box they would effectively fill is 627173.892767008 cm^3

Leaving spare volume in the box of 372826.107232992 cm^3 ( 372.826 L ish)

or about 35 crates of beer.

Which doesn't seem possible:D

Although I am no maths wizard, I now know that the question relates to "Sphere Packing" which I know nothing of, prior to thsi and as such, did not use it in my calculations. However, the question does state, Ball Bearings.

These are made of steel and as such, are heavy. Google tells me that steel has a "standardised" density of 7.85g cm^3 which for my calculations, equates 6.2712 Metric tons in the box.

So, who has considered the compressive effects of this mass on the layers, and how much room would this compression yield?

Bon? How are my calculations?
 

MsHell

Shooting for the ladies
Dec 21, 2007
85
6
28
Looking at my calculations I would agree with John also:

Using hexagonal close packing the spheres would take up 74.048% of the volume of the cube:

Volume of cube = 1000^3 = 1 000 000 000mm^3
74.048% = 740480000 mm^3

Volume of sphere = 4/3 pi r^3 = 8.181230869

number of spheres = 740480000/8.181230869 = 90509610 (nearest whole sphere)

Hence surface area of 1 sphere = 4 pi x 1.25^2 = 19.63495408 mm^2
Total surface area = 90509610 x 19.63495408 = 1777152037 mm^2 = 1777.2 m^2

But the answer that you get really does depend on whose theorem you use. I was using Kepler's conjecture.

If you use Le Lionnais 1983 then the max packing density is approx 78.0% so you would get:

Total spheres = 95 295 632
Surface area = 1871125358 mm^2 = 1871.1m^2

If you use Linsey 1986 then the max packing density is approx 77.844 % so you would get:

Total spheres = 95 149 496
Surface area = 1868255985 mm^2 = 1868.3 m^2

If you use muder 1988 then the max packing density is approx 77.836% so you would get:

Total spheres = 95 139 718
surface area = 1868063994 mm^2 = 1868.1 m^2

However this could be completely wrong :p
 

Bon

Timmy Nerd
Feb 22, 2006
2,754
76
73
35
Birmingham
You have me questioning my own answer now :(

I worked it out like so. Probably wrong!


A bead with a 2.5 mm diameter will have an aproximate surface area of 19.6mm, and a volume of 8.1 mm3

In 1 meter cubed, there is 1,000,000,000 millimeters cubed

So 1,000,000,000 divided by 8.1 = 123,456,790 beads in 1 meter cubed of beads.

123,456,790 times 19.6 gives us a total surface area of 2,419,753,084 millimeters squared.

Convert this to meters squared.

2 419.75308 metres squared

One would assume, the most efficient way to stack these would be 3 balls on the bottom, 1 on the top. I need to work out, how much space is in that area.


The volume formula for a regular tetrahedron with an edge length of A is sqrt 2/12*A^3

So sqrt(2)/12*2.5^3 is 1.8414mm^3, which is the volume of the entire main tetrahedron.

The volume of each sphere is 4/3pir^3. 4/3 * pi * 1.25^3 is 8.181mm3

8.18 / 6 is 1.36mm2, which is the volume of the 4 sections of each sphere added together.

1.841 - 1.360 = 0.481mm3, which should, hopefully be the volume of the empty space inside that tetrahedron

So from now on, for every bead added we need to account for another 0.481mm3 of space

Take the original number of beads calculated, and multiple these figures together

123,456,790* 0.481 = 59382715.99

1,000,000,000 + 59,382,716 = 1,059,382,716 meaning we overshot the mark by a 40cm by 40cm by 40cm mark.


Lets recalculate now, assuming each bead has a volume of 8.181 + 0.481 = 8.662

1,000,000,000 divided by 8.662 = 115,446,779

meaning we had 8,010,011 too many beads.


Anyways the new total surface area of those beads works out to

2,262,756,868 millimeters squared

convert to meters squared.


2 262.75687 meters squared.
 

MsHell

Shooting for the ladies
Dec 21, 2007
85
6
28
You have me questioning my own answer now :(

I worked it out like so. Probably wrong!


A bead with a 2.5 mm diameter will have an aproximate surface area of 19.6mm, and a volume of 8.1 mm3

In 1 meter cubed, there is 1,000,000,000 millimeters cubed

So 1,000,000,000 divided by 8.1 = 123,456,790 beads in 1 meter cubed of beads.

123,456,790 times 19.6 gives us a total surface area of 2,419,753,084 millimeters squared.

Convert this to meters squared.

2 419.75308 metres squared

One would assume, the most efficient way to stack these would be 3 balls on the bottom, 1 on the top. I need to work out, how much space is in that area.


The volume formula for a regular tetrahedron with an edge length of A is sqrt 2/12*A^3

So sqrt(2)/12*2.5^3 is 1.8414mm^3, which is the volume of the entire main tetrahedron.

The volume of each sphere is 4/3pir^3. 4/3 * pi * 1.25^3 is 8.181mm3

8.18 / 6 is 1.36mm2, which is the volume of the 4 sections of each sphere added together.

1.841 - 1.360 = 0.481mm3, which should, hopefully be the volume of the empty space inside that tetrahedron

So from now on, for every bead added we need to account for another 0.481mm3 of space

Take the original number of beads calculated, and multiple these figures together

123,456,790* 0.481 = 59382715.99

1,000,000,000 + 59,382,716 = 1,059,382,716 meaning we overshot the mark by a 40cm by 40cm by 40cm mark.


Lets recalculate now, assuming each bead has a volume of 8.181 + 0.481 = 8.662

1,000,000,000 divided by 8.662 = 115,446,779

meaning we had 8,010,011 too many beads.


Anyways the new total surface area of those beads works out to

2,262,756,868 millimeters squared

convert to meters squared.


2 262.75687 meters squared.
I'm probably wrong here but wouldn't the length of the edges of the tetrahedron be larger than the diameter of the sphere - otherwise it would not be able to contain the sphere?
 

M600

Sock Hats are Cool!
Jan 4, 2008
894
70
63
ok guys i got it
im about to blow your minds
just need a couple mins to write it down
there will be diagrams!!!!
 

Ali

gunnin down fools in style
Jun 23, 2007
1,937
46
73
30
huddersfield
how are you all so f*cking smart!? none of what any of you have said has made any sense to me what so ever, well apart from the odd bit here and there but yeah!