Millennium Rules ?

[trummar]

Originally posted by Steve Morris
ridiculously naffy looks

Steve

As if we aren't already... Some look like the earlier mentioned StormTroops of StarWars.

My point is still:

In order to enforce the rules in a practical way - I think that it is the wrong way to go if you are making rules that require more people to enforce them. Simple rules makes it easier for the judges to enforce the important rules. Hits and play-ons etc.

Someone said K.I.S.S. (Not directed at anyone)

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by trummar
As if we aren't already... Some look like the earlier mentioned StormTroops of StarWars.

My point is still:

In order to enforce the rules in a practical way - I think that it is the wrong way to go if you are making rules that require more people to enforce them. Simple rules makes it easier for the judges to enforce the important rules. Hits and play-ons etc.

Someone said K.I.S.S. (Not directed at anyone)

Different people will interpret simplicity differently.

As one small example, I think it is easy and doesn't require any extra personnel to keep orange and pink out of exposed clothing and off stickers. Ditto only allowing opaque hoppers. And both mean there is less chance that we who judge have to run up to players to see if a small patch of orange is a hit, to your point. We are a tiny bit less distracted.

Another example, if we don't have to dig under someone's jersey to make sure there is a layer of clothing under a padded shoulder then we can concentrate on more important issues during team check-ins, again to your point.

Unfortunately, as the stakes go up in our sport, the increasing willingness to stretch the rules and jump through every tiny loophole is forcing the rulemakers to add increasing complexity to the rules. Look at the whole issue of cheater boards. I don't see any simple, inexpensive or non-time-consuming way to safeguard our sport from the cheaters (except maybe slowing down the feeding systems or allowing only mechanical markers).

If the industry is forced to buy expensive testing equipment and train technical scrutineers then money will have to be spent that could be better used for professional judges and judge training courses.

But in here with all of this other stuff are those things that are also vitally important:

¤ bringing uniformity (as much as practically possible) among the leagues regarding the rules
¤ having the balls to enforce the rules that are already there even if they step on a toe or two
¤ enforcing the rules consistently regardless of politics and personality

Steve

 

[Steve Morris]

Head protection

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Short term we should have a rule that allows most the products out there today.

I'm suggesting we have something in writing. The de facto situation is that all major leagues allow padded head protection.

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
For 2005, require hard plastic caps...

Did you read what I wrote about the potential negative incentive players might have to wearing such protection if that protection tends to cause paint to break easier rather than the other way? I'm curious if anyone sees my point there?

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Before that, I suggest the MS get hold of a head trauma specialist, and have the effects of a paintball to the head analysed asap - rather than coming up with a requirement for head protection if there is no need..... all possible respect for Egis father, but this have to be dealt with in an official manner.

You're kiddin', aren't you? I don't see such a thing popping into any PB league's budget in the near future.

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
But, Steve, It won't do any good, if you guys on the rules committee sit around doing nothing for the next 6 months, and then start debating this...

I certainly am ready and willing to make progress on the rules and get things moving. But that's just me.

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
As for heat..... if the plastic caps have small holes in them, that won't be too big of a problem.

Good point, but I think no-matter-what it will be hotter.

Good feedback though.

Steve

 

[noop]

I think some people are forgetting that bounces are part of the game, whether or not someone dresses to encourage them.

Keep tournaments in warm weather and you aren't going to have any problems.

Hard plastic rules? Please...

Head trauma expert? Why don't you just have someone shoot you in the top of your bare head from four feet away with a hot bouncing gun? Let me know if you feel anything.

I know what you are trying to avoid, but no use getting critical when you don't need to. People don't, and will not wear too much on their head, because it is just too hot. People aren't going to wear too much padding on their lower body, because it is just too hard to move. Same goes for oversized clothing.

The only things you have to worry about that some rule books don't deal with are pretty simple.
1. Forearm pads. They're visible, so it's pretty damn obvious when problems are occuring.
2. Hoods. Again, visible. Most ban sweatshirts anyway.

Reading the NPPL rules, I think they have got this **** down just fine.

 

[Wadidiz]

Steve and Noob

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I think you are both missing the point.

Nobody today KNOWS if paintball is potentially a sport that can cause long term brain damage (as Egi suggested).

If it can't - and we are just taking pain - I can take as much as the next guy, and have no problem disallowing any kind of padding on the head.

But, if paintball IS potentially dangerous, if would be rather smart for the sport to find out, and take the appropriate steps to ensure it isn't anymore.

Cost ? - It doesn't have to be THAT expensive..... it's quite easy for a scientist to calculate the amount of energy delivered per square inch to the head. - Consult a head trauma specialist with that information, and ask him what effects - if any - that has... short and long term.

I'd be surprised if that cost more than a few 100 $, to get a first indication of whether there was something to investigate further.

The alternative is an avalanche of lawsuits 10 years from now.... and onwards.... and people WOULD bring them towards promoters, for not running events that were sufficiently "safe".

Nick

Nick,

Don't get me wrong; I think there might be a need in some cases to pay for some studies. I'm just realistic about the prospects being extremely low right now for any league spending money on something like this right now.

Actually I think it is all too obvious there is a need for head protection. I was convinced after watching my first X Ball tourney and having to hit the horn button because a player was knocked unconcious after getting bunkered and receiving multiple hits on the head. And that wasn't the only such incident that took place in just that one tournament.

It really isn't a stretch at all to deduct, like Egi and I discussed at that same tournament, that multiple shots to the head, especially at close range, at 300 FPS, are NO DOUBT likely to cause irreversible damage to players who subject themselves to it on a regular basis over a period of time. And the exposure can only get worse because the envelope is being pushed rapidly in PB regarding ROF. And the games are only getting quicker and more aggressive. Then there is talk of NXL and maybe EXL players playing games on a weekly basis in the future.

So I don't agree that a study is needed, yet. We just need to require head protection and figure out what the reasonable way to do it would be.

After we start requiring head protection and after more money has come into the sport then we can afford scientific and medical studies IMO.

Steve

 

[noop]

Steve and Noob

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I think you are both missing the point.
...
If it can't - and we are just taking pain - I can take as much as the next guy, and have no problem disallowing any kind of padding on the head.

No, no...actually I think you are...all three of them in fact.

First, and again, bounces are part of the sport. Now in your ideal world, they may not exist...but for all I know, everyone might be wearing purple hats too.

Second, we are not just taking pain, and you do not need a doctorate to determine this. How do I know? Because I know a player could schedule you or anyone else on this earth a visit to the hospital with his marker. All the time? No. But it can happen, it has happened, and it will happen. I'm not saying wearing a cap will change this, but that's not the point, the point is that we can cause damage.

Lastly, be it short-term or long-term damage, it doesn't matter. We are all so eager to aspire to be a "real" sport, and how do real sports deal with this? Do they stop playing soccer because of the possibility of heading the ball? Do they stop playing football because of possible...no wait...definite short-term and long-term damage? Rugby?

There is nothing wrong with padding.

 

[Robbo]

Oh My God, I hadn't thought for one second you guys were gonna take that post so literally, they were just nominal values.
I came up with those ideas in about five seconds.

The whole point of that post was to show ya that with even a little bit of thinking you can get at least somewhere near the answers that's why I added those comments at the end.

People like Steve, Hotpoint, Joern, Borccoli Dwarf and others can concern themselves with the details who are all eminently better qualified than myself to do that kind of stuff.
(Broccoli, that wasn't meant as a dig)

That original post a sideways dig at the way we seem to approach things, that's all.

 

[Steve Morris]

To summarize a few points and to answer the main question that started this thread plus a few others regarding rules for Maxs Masters:

1. We will be using the Millennium 7-player rules V.4.0 that are now published on the Millennium website. They are basically the same rules as we ended the season with last year except now we have 7-minute games.

2. There MOST LIKELY will be a few modifications or addendums to those rules announced at the judges' and captains' meetings. None of the possible modifications or addendums will impact equipment or clothing for Maxs Masters compared to the practice used at the end of last season. However those meetings are very important.

3. Jerseys with padding in the shoulders, such as the Dye ones discussed on this thread, will be allowed for the time being but expect some announcements regarding future policy.

4. Ditto the above regarding pink and orange.

5. Ditto point 3 regarding clear hoppers.

I hope this is clear enough.

I look forward to the Millennium season beginning in Bitburg. Things have been a little confusing but things are coming into place and we all have high expectations for this year.

Steve

 

[Fatty]

Hi steave again,

just wanted to clear few things:
when you play openxball will some of the rules from 7man rules apply on there or is it strictly xball rules? (like dye shirt and so on)
and if they do will it be ok if you take the shoulder padding away and you t-shirt?

 

[Steve Morris]

Originally posted by Fatty
Hi steave again,

just wanted to clear few things:
when you play openxball will some of the rules from 7man rules apply on there or is it strictly xball rules? (like dye shirt and so on)
and if they do will it be ok if you take the shoulder padding away and you t-shirt?

Hey Jesse,

The X Ball rules are totally separate. We are allowing the Dye jerseys and others like them in Paris only because NXL are allowing them at the moment. Expect that to change in the near future (in other words don't buy any new jerseys with padding in the wrong places).

Concerning the protected colors, pink and orange: the X Ball rules have been clear about that from the very beginning and they won't be allowed in any exposed clothing. (5.1.8. Orange or pink colours are not allowed on exposed clothing.)

Also note the following X Ball rule: 5.4.4. Loaders must be of a single colour and are allowed to have one (1) 2 inch by 4 inch (5 x 10 cm) sticker on each side only. The stickers can only contain the colours: black, white, and Pantone™ Red 032. 5.4.4.1. Faded and variations of the colours may not be allowed.

Let me know if there are any other questions.

Steve