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MS 500, so how so you see this going down?

STONESOLDIER

Planet Eclipse
Mar 4, 2007
1,957
549
148
Manchester, Stretford
I watched the M500 exhibition match in France all that seemed to happen was that everyone moved a lot quicker, all the points I watched never came down to the last loader it was pretty much a normal match but was a lot quicker.

Federov was asked what he thought and he simply said ''it was not fun''
 

Spikerz

Super Moderator
Mar 25, 2014
1,731
693
148
40
@hoot I spoke to Max in Puget and he was adamant that the sport needs to go to a limited paint format to sharply grow the lower divisions. Margins on paint are razor thin, it's heavy, hard to transport, and keep climate controlled. So if you can lower your consumption by 35-45% it goes a long way to helping control costs for players and companies.

We played 14 or 15 points over the weekend and shot 17 cases as a team. Which is pretty much bang on to 500 per person per point. There were a few games as a back player I needed 4 pods. So hopefully redistribution of paint can happen.
 

DYE HARD

Member
Mar 15, 2003
42
4
18
cambridgeshire
Can't really see the point of it yet. We need more game time not quicker points, watched it in Puget and agree with Federov.
Quote: (Margins on paint are razor thin, it's heavy, hard to transport, and keep climate controlled. So if you can lower your consumption by 35-45% it goes a long way to helping control costs for players and companies.)
So what are the paint suppliers going to do then turn up with a transit van full. How will that help the sport.
Why not try formula 5. Try it at one of the millenniums like they did the M500 and let the players choose put it to a players vote after all it's there money they spend at these events not the organisers.
 

STONESOLDIER

Planet Eclipse
Mar 4, 2007
1,957
549
148
Manchester, Stretford
Can't really see the point of it yet. We need more game time not quicker points
More time to shoot more paint and cost more money

I admit as soon as I hear of the M500 I was totally against it hated the idea of changing the game I currently know and like.

Its completely grew on me now as it reeks a lot of benefits for everyone in the sport and anyone wanting to get into the sport

Yes the Paint supplies might just do that now they know exactly the amount of paint to bring per team for the entire tournament which will save money

teams will now have a greatly reduced paint bill if you won your match 4-0 and shot every balls you would have used no more than 5 boxes if you win your game 4-3 you will have used no more than 9 boxes per match

More teams can now start to afford paintball, More teams can afford to train more and know exactly what its going to cost them

Our sport is expensive and its hard for people to get into it knowing what it might cost, There is a team in the CPPS elite division and I know some of there end bills were £200 per player for paint and entrance.

Imagine the teams that play the lower divisions using more recreational paint for there tournament they could now upgrade to a more tournament ball better for the players and better for the paint vendors.
 

Tony Harrison

What is your beef with the Mac?
Mar 13, 2007
6,287
1,746
238
More time to shoot more paint and cost more money

I admit as soon as I hear of the M500 I was totally against it hated the idea of changing the game I currently know and like.

Its completely grew on me now as it reeks a lot of benefits for everyone in the sport and anyone wanting to get into the sport

Yes the Paint supplies might just do that now they know exactly the amount of paint to bring per team for the entire tournament which will save money

teams will now have a greatly reduced paint bill if you won your match 4-0 and shot every balls you would have used no more than 5 boxes if you win your game 4-3 you will have used no more than 9 boxes per match

More teams can now start to afford paintball, More teams can afford to train more and know exactly what its going to cost them

Our sport is expensive and its hard for people to get into it knowing what it might cost, There is a team in the CPPS elite division and I know some of there end bills were £200 per player for paint and entrance.

Imagine the teams that play the lower divisions using more recreational paint for there tournament they could now upgrade to a more tournament ball better for the players and better for the paint vendors.
Exactly! Good post, Stoney.
 

Ash - GI Sportz

GI Sportz
Jun 14, 2006
398
205
83
33
GI Towers
More time to shoot more paint and cost more money

I admit as soon as I hear of the M500 I was totally against it hated the idea of changing the game I currently know and like.

Its completely grew on me now as it reeks a lot of benefits for everyone in the sport and anyone wanting to get into the sport

Yes the Paint supplies might just do that now they know exactly the amount of paint to bring per team for the entire tournament which will save money

teams will now have a greatly reduced paint bill if you won your match 4-0 and shot every balls you would have used no more than 5 boxes if you win your game 4-3 you will have used no more than 9 boxes per match

More teams can now start to afford paintball, More teams can afford to train more and know exactly what its going to cost them

Our sport is expensive and its hard for people to get into it knowing what it might cost, There is a team in the CPPS elite division and I know some of there end bills were £200 per player for paint and entrance.

Imagine the teams that play the lower divisions using more recreational paint for there tournament they could now upgrade to a more tournament ball better for the players and better for the paint vendors.
Agree with a lot of your points Stoney but I still think this M500 needs a lot of work before its a finished article.

-I don't think we need 'more' time, but fundamentally playing paintball is about shooting your gun and this limits how much you get to shoot your gun per point. If I'm paying all those entry fees, travel. hotel etc, I don't want to go from the situation now where if I want I can shoot as much as I can carry and get out of my tank, to having a limit on that (I can't see entry fees going down in line with a limited playing time) - under M500, points will undoubtedly be faster, but will we still get 10/15 minutes on the game clock? Will a game ever go to time? How about we just play M500 to the clock rather than to 4 or 5 points? This way you actually get MORE paintball for the SAME money as you currently pay - thats better than LESS paintball for LESS money in my book.

-Also regarding paint consumption, most teams currently use on average one box per point anyway, so given M500 allows you to take 2500 balls on the field between the 5 of you, once teams get the hang of it and re-distribute paint accordingly, is the consumption going to drop significantly? If we really want to limit consumption you have to put a limit on what you can take for a match. E.g. 5 boxes go in the pits and thats your lot, if you run out after 3 points then you would forfeit points to the other team (maybe each point forfeited takes 45 seconds off the match clock or something)

-There needs to be a differential between the entry level format and the pro format, with stages in between. Whether that is an increase in per point/match paint allowance, wider start gates the lower the division, more props on the field in lower divisions, race-to higher points, longer game time, whatever - you need to have recognisable steps from entry through to pro so that there is a noticeable improvement/increase of difficulty when you go up a level.

I think we all agree that formats which give easier access to paintball are much needed, but should that be happening in a top-down scenario? We have 16 pro teams in Europe that are (largely) happy with the current format, so why overhaul it? I would argue that the Millennium need to keep the pro format as pure as possible (within reason - there won't be much take up for 25bps full Xball with 30minute halves with 15man squads) and then offer increasingly more affordable options through the divisions. These changes need to come from grass roots up so as to get more people in to the game. If that means the Millennium have to run a separate 'newcomers only' event or something to showcase it and effectively sell it to the national and regional leagues then thats how it should go...
 
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onasilverbike

I'm a country member!
@Ash - DYE Europe makes some salient points here, when (if) teams get a thorough understanding of the format they will play out points in a similar manner to how they always have, heavy shooters will have their packs loaded up on the gate while the point bag 2/snake on the break guys may only go out with a pot or even just a hopper, if you have a low chance of survival off the break or in your primary, why sacrifice up to 20% of your team paint allocation!

More field time is a common request, though it will inevitably make for more expense, not just in paint but in entry fees as organisers (not just the MS) have to account for the cost of running a field, even adding extra field(s) to accommodate all the play.

If you compare MS entry fees to PSP (OK it may well be a thing of the past and the NXL is a little cheaper to play) the cost difference shows how a more efficient use of field time, especially the system of 2 games being played in the same time slot, makes for entry fee savings.

I can see a point where the upper divisions have a higher cap than the lower divs, M500 (M540 if you include 260 loaders and 2x 140 pots) or even M600 for CPL and say M350/400 for lower divisions, one pot and a hopper! This would make for a higher potential saving rather than playing lip service to the status quo!