NPPL Huntington Beach: Who's going?

[raehl]

knobbs

The sponsors *ARE* the NXL. Same thing. The $250k is an investment - think of it like buying stock, only in a company that isn't publically traded. You're trying to view them as separate entities, and they're not. Whoever paid the $250k OWNS the team. OWNS it. THEIRS. There's 8 (or maybe 9) of them who have franchises. Those 8 or 9 owners *OWN* the NXL. It's THEIRS.

They've giving people the opportunity to play in their league, which THEY OWN. You can take them up on their offer and accept their conditions, or not. If you don't like the conditions, then don't play. You're not needed. Why is the NXL in ANY way obligated to do allow their players to do anything?

PLAYERS ARE NOT ENTITLED TO PLAY IN THE NXL. There are a fixed number of spots which the NXL gets to decide how to fill and if you don't like their criteria TOUGH ****.


And is Dynasty even an X Ball team? JT/Bras Eagle/VL are not participating in X Ball, so if they are an X Ball team, who is footing their franchise fee? I notice that the posters on the JT site all coincidentally have 7 players in them. Interesting.


- Chris


*note that I'm referring to players who hae a free ride+. Obviously players who are PAYING for their events are woed what they're paying for.

 

[Baca Loco]

knobbs

Originally posted by raehl
1--The sponsors *ARE* the NXL. Same thing. The $250k is an investment - think of it like buying stock, only in a company that isn't publically traded. You're trying to view them as separate entities, and they're not. Whoever paid the $250k OWNS the team. OWNS it. THEIRS. There's 8 (or maybe 9) of them who have franchises. Those 8 or 9 owners *OWN* the NXL. It's THEIRS.

2--Obviously players who are PAYING for their events are woed what they're paying for.

1--quite right but what the owners don't own at this point are the players, or more correctly player rights. How far will this elite league go should the elite players abandon it? If NXL were an established sport they might survive 'replacement players' but until then the players do have some recourse.

2--there's a first.

 

[raehl]

I think it's the exact opposite...

I think the players have little recourse now, but will have more as the league grows.


Players will be paid what they're worth - only able to demand a premium corresponding to their value over someone else willing to do the same job for less. They could, through collective bargaining, be able to raise what they're given, but not to a point that the league becomes unprofitable, because then it'll just simple cease to exist.

- Chris

 

[knobbs]

knobbs

Originally posted by raehl
The sponsors *ARE* the NXL. Same thing. The $250k is an investment - think of it like buying stock, only in a company that isn't publically traded. You're trying to view them as separate entities, and they're not. Whoever paid the $250k OWNS the team. OWNS it. THEIRS. There's 8 (or maybe 9) of them who have franchises. Those 8 or 9 owners *OWN* the NXL. It's THEIRS.

They've giving people the opportunity to play in their league, which THEY OWN. You can take them up on their offer and accept their conditions, or not. If you don't like the conditions, then don't play. You're not needed. Why is the NXL in ANY way obligated to do allow their players to do anything?

PLAYERS ARE NOT ENTITLED TO PLAY IN THE NXL. There are a fixed number of spots which the NXL gets to decide how to fill and if you don't like their criteria TOUGH ****.

Ahh, but you are wrong there. Yeah, maybe the sponsors "are" the NXL, but they don't retain the rights to players. It's obvious that DYE had no problem with the Ironmen playing S7 because they were signed and ready to play. Then, because the NXL decided players were exclusive, they had to pull out. Doesn't sound like DYE themselves had much say in that. It should be a sponsor by sponsor thing. Otherwise, they've given up all control.

Originally posted by raehl
And is Dynasty even an X Ball team? JT/Bras Eagle/VL are not participating in X Ball, so if they are an X Ball team, who is footing their franchise fee? I notice that the posters on the JT site all coincidentally have 7 players in them. Interesting.

Uhm...no ****? I said nothing otherwise. With the exclusivity of the NXL, Dynasty has no real competition for the S7. All the other top guys are going NXL. Dynasty, arguably the best in the world, will be stuck playing second rate teams because the good ones are all playing X-Ball.

 

[raehl]

Re: knobbs

Originally posted by knobbs
Ahh, but you are wrong there. Yeah, maybe the sponsors "are" the NXL, but they don't retain the rights to players. It's obvious that DYE had no problem with the Ironmen playing S7 because they were signed and ready to play. Then, because the NXL decided players were exclusive, they had to pull out. Doesn't sound like DYE themselves had much say in that. It should be a sponsor by sponsor thing. Otherwise, they've given up all control.

That would never work - it's a league, not every team for itself. There HAVE to be league policies, and if 6 of the league owners want it one way, the other two are just going to have to deal with it. If you have each team being able to go off and willy nilly do what it wants, that kills the whole concept.

Uhm...no ****? I said nothing otherwise. With the exclusivity of the NXL, Dynasty has no real competition for the S7. All the other top guys are going NXL. Dynasty, arguably the best in the world, will be stuck playing second rate teams because the good ones are all playing X-Ball.

If they were really that good, the players would be getting snapped up by the other teams - assuming those players want to be. Who knows, maybe the new 9th team is Dynasty with a new sponsor. (No, I don't know anything to that affect.)


- Chris

 

[TJ 2]

They really are that good and several of their players were mooted to be playing on X teams until tha new rule nixed that idea...let's not forget politics and allegiances come into play here. It is a rule shame that tha world's best team isn't playing X this year and you gotta wonder whether Dynasty will survive intact if NXL kicks off. I can see big defections occuring if NXL starts strongly...and I suspect the final X team will be Evil Factory, if Momma Lambini's crystal ball is working OK.

 

[Wadidiz]

I'm just wondering: Raehl keeps talking about market forces and basic business practices; has anyone done any market research about the REAL sellability of Xball? I mean that's just basic, common-sense business isn't it? Has anyone shown that this is really going to sell? Or is it just ASSumptions, stepping out on faith, pipe-dreams?

As much as I love PB, and even though I'm usually an optimist, I don't see people paying to watch PB, even Xball, any time in the near future. Is there any scientific, hard information that indicates otherwise? Or is the card-house (possibly) that's being built now based on the fact that Xball is the best we have to show so far?

The connection to this thread? Who's NOT going to HB is based upon the ASSumption that Xball will be a media breakthrough, which I seriously doubt. Sorry 'bout that!

Steve

 

[raehl]

SOMEBODY researches it...

Because I get a phone call every week or two from someone doing research on the sport. It's more frequent when we have releases out.

It's pretty much always someone you can tell has been assigned this job by someone else and does research of this sort for a living. They're usually after participation numbers, although I'm generally surprised that someone who does do this kind of research for a living doesn't think to look at the SGMA super study.


In terms of whether it can be successful as a spectator sport - well, I don't think it's even possible to do research on that exactly. Yeah, you can get the participation numbers, but beyond that it's kind of a judgement call. I mean, how to you MEASURE sellability (did oyu just invent that word?) of X Ball? Either you believe paintball is marketable, or you don't. Some people put a lot of money into seeing if the XFL was marketable, and those people were WRONG, heh. Sometimes you just gotta take your few million dollars and throw it out there and see if it works. Even if it doesn't, you might land a gig on Leno or something.


- Chris

 

[TJ Lambini]

Bang goes that theory

Well, the whole 'mystique and separation' theory is outta tha window then...

http://www.p8ntballer.com/cgi-bin/news-viewnews.cgi?id=1042622523

Gotta say, it does tend to read like 'You can play what you want as long as it ain't Super-7s'...so tha Euros out there ain't gonna be playing the big boys - barring Dynasty and Lanche - any time soon.

 

[Wadidiz]

So apparently no market research has been done. What I'm talking about here is basic. REAL companies usually don't throw millions out on a whim. They almost always do research and THEN throw away millions.

For example, before McDonald's came out with their McFeast or McDLT (or whatever they call one of their hamburgers in America) they were at Lenox Square in Atlanta and probably at Mall of America getting people to be guinea pigs to find out if it was salable (that's the correct spelling). I also was in a group of "consumers" for research that turned out to be for a new car Honda later came out with.

Real market researchers would identify a target audience and then pay them to have a look at the product in order to assess whether or not people would actually pay for it and, if so, how much.

I'm sorry to say, but I suspect that some of the friends and family of PB players are much more likely to tolerate and maybe even enjoy an Xball game or two (more than the traditional formats), but I find it unlikely that droves of people will be willing to pay to see it. It can, however, IMHO be something some people might watch on ESPN or Eurosport if nothing else is on. Let's face it: PB is a participatory sport that is hard to spectate for the uninitiated (maybe similar to major league baseball in Europe or cricket in America: dead boring even though there is a central focus on the ball). I hope I'm wrong but I don't see that changing anytime soon.

STeve