Paint usage

[Hawks]

I thought F5 was ment to be different and allow the players to just have fun + freedom, looks to me like we going same way as all the other tourneys with all these rules.

I surgest if u want to lower cost then drop the green fee for all teams down to £250 or £25 a player, which will allow those teams who can not put in a full team still to play without haveing the extra cost.

I thought the whole point of 3k air was to stop u carrying so much paint, 3k air will give u about 6 pots and a hopper if u lucky, so if u want to keep on your trigger u wont stay in that long due to running out of air and paint, once u get teams that are even it wont matter how much paint u carry as it will be a much even fight, all u are doing by limitering the paint is making the game slower and less fun, i belive it is down to the players to decide how much paint they are shooting as they are paying for it.


On average we use about 16 boxes of paint and none of our players pay more then £80 for the whole day of which includes paint and green fee, where else can u have so much fun.

 

[southernP8nt]

I thought F5 was ment to be different and allow the players to just have fun + freedom, looks to me like we going same way as all the other tourneys with all these rules.

I surgest if u want to lower cost then drop the green fee for all teams down to £250 or £25 a player, which will allow those teams who can not put in a full team still to play without haveing the extra cost.

I thought the whole point of 3k air was to stop u carrying so much paint, 3k air will give u about 6 pots and a hopper if u lucky, so if u want to keep on your trigger u wont stay in that long due to running out of air and paint, once u get teams that are even it wont matter how much paint u carry as it will be a much even fight, all u are doing by limitering the paint is making the game slower and less fun, i belive it is down to the players to decide how much paint they are shooting as they are paying for it.


On average we use about 16 boxes of paint and none of our players pay more then £80 for the whole day of which includes paint and green fee, where else can u have so much fun.

The 3k air is actually one of the things that I really don't agree with and the reason is simple. It is a major disadvantage to anybody using an older, less efficient marker.

If you had 4.5k air but limited each player to say a hopper and 4 pods then it would still give each player a good amount of paint every time they are in play, but not so much that they can sit there on the trigger for hours, but will also make sure that everybody can get through their paint without running out of air.

 

[Donk]

The 3k air is actually one of the things that I really don't agree with and the reason is simple. It is a major disadvantage to anybody using an older, less efficient marker.

If you had 4.5k air but limited each player to say a hopper and 4 pods then it would still give each player a good amount of paint every time they are in play, but not so much that they can sit there on the trigger for hours, but will also make sure that everybody can get through their paint without running out of air.

The 3k air is something that really has got to stay for a few reasons, firstly and more importantly it is because air systems are rated at 3k or 4.5k so by increasing the supply there would be two fill rigs in each zone meaning you would need to make sure you use the right one or blow your burst disk which when your turning around pronto rapido will stuff your day. You cannot really make everyone pay more for 4.5k systems as F5 is aiming to get people playing of all levels with all equipment, so with no way of knowing who is using what there will be problems. Another reason the air is limited is with super efficient guns such as pretty much anything Bob Long has waved his hand near holding 4.5k of air you are looking at 13 pot capable players which allows the lock down of the field and stagnates the game.
Limiting the paint a player can hold on his person will make turn arounds slower as the end zone judge would have to check you before you can rejoin the field.

I do agree with Woody, different field layouts would be more fun it does seem a little repetitive this season. Although the 280fps is something I do like and wouldn't want to change, my reasons for that is there are quite a lot of muggings in F5 and it hurts less simple as that. We play 3 younger ballers (13,13 & 14 respectively) and I hope F5 is a way to bring young blood in, 300fps means people will long ball more & with higher velocity the chances of pinning a team in the End Zone increase.

I don't think paint usage is an issue, the cost of paint has come down dramatically over the last 9 years that I have been playing, You spend ££££'s on markers, new headbands different barrels so if your looking at paintball & thinking it is expensive for paint give yourself a slap. There are different grades of ball you can use & John Sosta has paint at the event which is very reasonably priced.
If your "sponsers" will not allow you to use Johns paint then how much are they helping your team?

 

[Lump]

There is no way in hell that any team is going to do 135 boxes in a tournament you are not taking into account when u are pinned down , or moving , or running back eliminated where you cant shoot your gun , plus the format penalizes you for shooting all your paint or running out of gas.

And your not reading the post

 

[southernP8nt]

Limiting the paint a player can hold on his person will make turn arounds slower as the end zone judge would have to check you before you can rejoin the field.

Would it really? How long does it take to glance at somebodies pack to see they're not carrying more than a certain number of pods?

 

[madness]

as donk said air for safety reasons should stay the same.as for limited paint we are grown ups let us make our own minds up on how we choose to play its not the millennium is it.formula 5's has always been about freedom to play how we like to bring new people in to the sport.so a 280 fps limit means that the new players aren't getting smashed when they are being mugged and put off coming back.even at 280fps there were players being hurt enough.
also a lot of teams struggle to get 10 players maybe some formula 3 events should be planned. we Splatpack play formula 5's but train millennium and we have found that millennium is so much easier.so lets not change F5's that much if at all.
Also we normally shoot between 15-20 boxes of paint so that's a max of two boxes each. As Greg said it works out too £80.00 a player.
keep it fun, yes.
change the field a bit more, yes.
keep a smile on your face, yes.
get more people to play F5's and come back, yes.

 

[WOODY LOKI]

There is no way in hell that any team is going to do 135 boxes in a tournament

if you READ the post its the worst case scenario which i have used to base a 15% rule 135/15%=20.25cases. Also pro teams will shoot up 20 cases per match in bigger tournys with much less field time. paint is how you control a field, its not just for shooting people.

The 3k air is actually one of the things that I really don't agree with and the reason is simple. It is a major disadvantage to anybody using an older, less efficient marker.

1. cheaper,less regulations and safer at 3k
2. anything post 2005 will still shoot 4 pots and hopper at 10.5

Although the 280fps is something I do like and wouldn't want to change, my reasons for that is there are quite a lot of muggings in F5 and it hurts less simple as that. We play 3 younger ballers (13,13 & 14 respectively) and I hope F5 is a way to bring young blood in, 300fps means people will long ball more & with higher velocity the chances of pinning a team in the End Zone increase.

There are far more muggings in 5 man and its every game in race 2 formats. I believe its a comdo of dropping rof and increasing fps not just one of those. you tell me what hurts more when being mugged 30 balls at 280fps or 20 at 300fps.

Surely if the format is to take the place of other embedded formats it needs to be tweaked. If it is the bridge between woods and sup air then gun rules should be similar.

 

[phil-boy]

Since playing the F5 for 2010 and 2011 seasons, we have used approx 16-18 boxes of paint per event, most of our guns are shooting 12 bps and are all 280fps. As it is this is a very enjoyable event, and since playing this I will not be going back to millenium type events mainly due to the trigger time element.

At each event there always seems to be a little "Tweak" that John Sosta has implemented, which is good but in my opinion the only items that need addressing is the armbands - these are a pain when you are coming in and changing over to another player, and I think that although the field is quite good, it does seem to be pretty much the same with minor tweaks at each event. Once you have figured out all the key bunkers, you can lock down the field. I think if the fields totally changed each event then this would give everyone a chance in each game.

Keep up the good work John, and dont go changing this format too much.

 

[Gadget]

I don't see any need to increase the max velocity above 280 - it's plenty to be able to shoot almost the entire length of the field and I'm 100% in favour of anything that takes the pain out of paintball.

I've never been a fan of high ROF, but also appreciate simplicity in the format - having to check ROF as well as velocity for each player adds another bit of complexity and delay - it'd be nice if people could be trusted to just stick to 10.5bps or whatever with no enforcement, but that'll never happen.

My own wish-list for a format would include disallowing powered loaders (hey presto, instant ROF enforcement!), but I'm aware that this would be as popular as a poop sandwich for many people.

 

[John Sosta]

Thanks for the input everyone , Maybe i did not make myself clear enough i never meant this thread for input so i can change the format it was merely to spark debate and if a good idea came along then we could test it.

Just to answer some of the note people have made.

Hawks
I thought F5 was meant to be different and allow the players to just have fun + freedom, looks to me like we going same way as all the other tourneys with all these rules.

As i said this thread was to spark debate it does not mean i will be doing everything suggested i designed the format to try to be less rules and give the players input which through out i think i have many times i have had people talk or email me saying leave the format exactly as it is any change may ruin it . While i accept this it is good to debate and get ideas on how to improve.


Hawks
I surest if u want to lower cost then drop the green fee for all teams down to £250 or £25 a player, which will allow those teams who can not put in a full team still to play without haveing the extra cost.

We are already amongst the cheapest Events giving more game time that anything bar woodland scenario games but most of these events charge something like £60 or more to attend , i sell top grade tourney paint for £26 and a cheaper middle brand for £23 a box. Which is the same as last year as well as keeping the entry fee the same inspite of the vat rise and everything else going up , if i were to lower costs it would make the whole thing unviable.
To charge per player is also unviable you cannot run a tournament with all the costs involved and not knowing what is going to come in on that day due to players from teams dropping out at the last second.


We already know that drooping the ROF from 20 bps to 15 BPS this year did little to drop consumption i think a further drop would probably only make a very small difference in costs to teams . In fact if you take into account that by buying in bulk you get cheaper paint if i were to sell less paint i would pay a higher price then the price to end user would go up so its catch 22.

I did not originally put in my post (maybe i should have ) that i was looking at a way of getting the average rental player to play in a tourney environment with a scoreboard, stats and so on.

So after they play they can compare their results and maybe next time form a team that plays regularly and eventually starts to play tourney ball this can only be good as it may bring new blood into the scene

Changing the field almost every event i get people saying the field was great this time but b=next time make a little change here and there which i do try to do . Its imposible to please everyone 100% of the time but next event i will change the field but its not a garantee everyone will like it.
If anyone wants to design a field we could use i am also open to that.