Pop quiz for Millennium/NPPL judges

[Wadidiz]

Revised answer to point 6:

Wipe the player and look for an Avalanche player in the woods.

(submitted by Hasse of DMZ on paintball.se forum)

 

[Joern Windler]

Wow, you're right

Originally posted by ascutt
Wadidz

I have just checked the Millenium rules and you're right - flag carriers can not be called neutral - what a stoopid rule!!

The idea behind the rule was pretty okay.
In former times we had a lot of situations like this on the field:

A player grabs the flag and while he is 2 meters away from the base he got called neutral and was checked in the middle of nowhere. All opponent players have now the time to realise, that their flag is gone and have the opportunity to aim (and move!) in better positions.
I wont say these marshals wanted to give hints to "their" team, but also if they only wanted to do their regular job well, they changed the game in favor to the opposite team..

Now we arent allowed to call the carriers neutral, but we can check them anyway during game (thats the normal way of checking players). If we didndt see (while hes running like hell back to his base) any hits we have this wonderful rules like "returning the flag" and "141" and last in the row "automatic win for the opponent team".


the rule is not too bad....


cheers
joern

 

[Wadidiz]

Re: Wow, you're right

Originally posted by windler


The idea behind the rule was pretty okay.
In former times we had a lot of situations like this on the field:

A player grabs the flag and while he is 2 meters away from the base he got called neutral and was checked in the middle of nowhere. All opponent players have now the time to realise, that their flag is gone and have the opportunity to aim (and move!) in better positions.
I wont say these marshals wanted to give hints to "their" team, but also if they only wanted to do their regular job well, they changed the game in favor to the opposite team..

Now we arent allowed to call the carriers neutral, but we can check them anyway during game (thats the normal way of checking players). If we didndt see (while hes running like hell back to his base) any hits we have this wonderful rules like "returning the flag" and "141" and last in the row "automatic win for the opponent team".


the rule is not too bad....


cheers
joern

I think you hit the nail right on the head concerning the thinking behind that rule.

 

[Kevin]

7. A player makes a move to bunker another player and is hit about the same time as the bunkered player. But the first player keeps moving forward and takes a second player out. The remaining two teammates of the first player take advantage of the distraction and backdoor the opposing players that are left, grab and hang the flag. What do you do?

Ok I agree with most of the responses apart from the ones to this question.

In my opinion there is no cheating here, the player who had been hit about the same time is not cheating, it is a marshalls duty to make the call whether he is eliminated or not, if he just stands and waits for a marshalls decision he will probably get shot and will definately lose the advantage as the other team will have time to adjust to his position, the other players taking advantage of this situation are not cheating, the opposing players have not been called neutral, anything they do is all fair. it is the opposing teams fault for all watching the same guy, if you do that you are asking to be back doored.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Kevin


Ok I agree with most of the responses apart from the ones to this question.

In my opinion there is no cheating here, the player who had been hit about the same time is not cheating, it is a marshalls duty to make the call whether he is eliminated or not, if he just stands and waits for a marshalls decision he will probably get shot and will definately lose the advantage as the other team will have time to adjust to his position, the other players taking advantage of this situation are not cheating, the opposing players have not been called neutral, anything they do is all fair. it is the opposing teams fault for all watching the same guy, if you do that you are asking to be back doored.

What I've tried to point out here is a clear game-changing play-on. The advancing player was hit about the same time as the first player he bunkered. But he keeps on and marks another opponent. The responsibility of the advancing player is to stop all aggressive play as soon as he feels that he might be hit and to check himself. He is allowed to seek cover in a non-aggressive way in order to perform the check.

If it is a hit he has felt but can't see himself, his obligation is to call for a paintcheck. After having called for a paintcheck and while waiting for the outcome of said check, he is still in the game (go figure!).

If the player wants to take a chance on a bounce, he can continue aggressive play but risks getting a 2-4-1.

As for it beíng the marshall's duty, that is wrong. We can't see everything. It is the player's responsibility to call her/himself out when known to be hit or to call for a paintcheck under the circumstances described above. That's the way the rules are written and rightly so.

I agree with you that a well-practiced player should not get tunnel vision and automatically turn to the direction of the distraction. But even the best players do so. The beauty of paintball is that the player who moves the furthest up is the one that's going to get the most attention! Just be prepared to pay a pretty price if you do so with a hit on you.

 

[Bobvannes]

In the NPPL you can't stop a player with the flag until you are eliminating him. We have this rule because of the Ironmen All Americans game from the first ESPN Championship. One of the Ironmen, I think it was Darrel or Dirk, was returning the flag and one of the Jax Warriors refs stops him to check him. Time is still going and the Ironmen miss the flag hang by seconds.

1. Eliminated player. Live flag.
2. Eliminated Player. Return flag to other station.
3. Ask them where they were hit and check them.
4. Nothing as long as the flag is not concelled.
5. Warn him before the game starts. Pull him if he plays with it.
6. Pull him and warn him. I would only 1-4-1 him only if his team has been questionable on your field already.
7. 2-4-1 for playing on in a game changing situation.
8. Dump it on the ultimate. Not really your field's problem.
9. Pull him and 1-4-1 his friend.
10. Warn the sidelines. Pull a player if they don't listen or understand.
11. 3-4-1 - That's pretty clear.
12. Call the ultimate and tell him to come out to the field. You don't want a lazy ultimate not listening to your side of the story and changing a game because some team is complaining.

 

[weedave]

Another question..

13. You see somebody fiddling with their marker during the game. What do you do?

 

[Bobvannes]

13. Poor question. You can take the bolt out of your cocker anytime you want. You can not turn the front of a Max-Flow reg ever. You can adjust the front reg pressure on your cocker anytime you want. You can not ever adjust the front reg pressure on your Impulse.

 

[weedave]

Well a member of Escarmouche hit his angel off by mistake and as he was turning it back on the ref pulled him for fiddling with his marker...

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Bobvannes
In the NPPL you can't stop a player with the flag until you are eliminating him. We have this rule because of the Ironmen All Americans game from the first ESPN Championship. One of the Ironmen, I think it was Darrel or Dirk, was returning the flag and one of the Jax Warriors refs stops him to check him. Time is still going and the Ironmen miss the flag hang by seconds.

1. Eliminated player. Live flag.
2. Eliminated Player. Return flag to other station.
3. Ask them where they were hit and check them.
4. Nothing as long as the flag is not concelled.
5. Warn him before the game starts. Pull him if he plays with it.
6. Pull him and warn him. I would only 1-4-1 him only if his team has been questionable on your field already.
7. 2-4-1 for playing on in a game changing situation.
8. Dump it on the ultimate. Not really your field's problem.
9. Pull him and 1-4-1 his friend.
10. Warn the sidelines. Pull a player if they don't listen or understand.
11. 3-4-1 - That's pretty clear.
12. Call the ultimate and tell him to come out to the field. You don't want a lazy ultimate not listening to your side of the story and changing a game because some team is complaining.

Again, here are my opinions and interpretations:

6. I can't understand why you don't simply enforce the rules. It's the player's responsibility to understand one of the most basic of all rules: if you feel the impact of a paintball your obligation is to immediately call for a paintcheck.
_________________________________
10.06. Players with obvious hits in areas which are not easily verifiable, such as the back, may continue to play, but must immediately call on a teammate who can easily verify whether or not the paintball broke to indicate whether or not such player was eliminated. The teammate must respond immediately, and if the hit player was eliminated, he must cease play, signal his elimination and exit the field pursuant to the provisions of this Section 10.0. Failure to call on such teammate for verification or failure of such teammate to respond immediately constitutes playing on by the hit player. If no such teammate is available for verification, such player may continue to play, but must immediately call for a paintcheck by a field judge. Failure to call for such a paintcheck immediately will constitute playing on by such player.
___________________________________

Inconsistency in making clear calls only creates confusion.

8. I agree that the ultimate should be informed about any team's
safety infractions. Just hope you don't mean by "not your field's problem" that it isn't our problem. Any tournament needs as many eyes as possible to protect our eyes.

10. Concerning talking from the sidelines: I think we must warn and then be very careful about pulling 1-4-1s on the field. We have to be absolutely clear that someone isn't "setting up" the team in question. If it is crystal clear that a certain team is getting off-field coaching, then do as you suggest: 1-4-1. I explained this more a few posts back.

11. I dealt with this one a few posts back also. The main thing here IMO is the "no reasonable doubt" thing, that you are 100% sure that the player wiped and that you are ready to stand behind your call.

I agree with you dead-on on all the others.

Steve