Should British Army upgrade?
- Thread starter shootinropez
- Start date
On a side note what ever happened to the shortened, stripped down sa80 designed for tankies?
I also agree that the A2 is a massive leap forward over the A1, but even when the A1 arrived it was best part of 30-40 years old. But as with everything you can have the best of the best but next week someone else will trump it! Its all part of weapon evolution. I am still waiting to be issued a moonraker laser.
I also agree that the A2 is a massive leap forward over the A1, but even when the A1 arrived it was best part of 30-40 years old. But as with everything you can have the best of the best but next week someone else will trump it! Its all part of weapon evolution. I am still waiting to be issued a moonraker laser.
There is only so much you can do to a rifle, it will be outdated soon enough by the fancy caseless round firing rifles and then the government can do what they want with their ever shrinking defense budget (the next rifle will probably look like this if the budget keeps shrinking)
sa80? all you need is one of these, no working parts and issue since 1943. would go well with the new issue super soaker electric storm the SF are using in afghan. everyone knows a wet insurgent is a sad insurgent.
I too have used both the A1 and the A2, and the improvements made completely transformed the rifle! The rifle has far more reliability now, and something as small as the upgraded cocking handle has made the world of difference. As stated earlier as well its a hell of an accurate rifle, and there is no point in one shot kills if you cant hit the target! The bullpup design also makes it extremely maneuverable! Ive fired several larger calibre rifles and the SA80 and the 5.56 Nato is definitely more refined and nicer to use! But this is just my two cents so please don't slam me too much! 
I have to admit the L85A1 is the worst rifle I ever used in Anger, The A2 is a noticeable improvement and the shortened version does exactly what it was designed to do. Hell it is close to perfect for CQB, the dagger up above is a great for up close and personal but the mistake our service always made was going to 5.56,,. Some boffin thought that if you hurt someone one or two others will stop and help you, therefore one bullet takes out three people. In Iraq and Afghan it has been found that if you are heavily drugged up then one round is not enough. You need a show stopper, 7.62mm does this perfectly, delivered from an AR-15 does the business.
Edit. Forgot to add, the great part of the A2 upgrade is the noticeable spinability it gives rounds. First round normally spins the individual, the second round can then smash your spine. So Humane
Edit. Forgot to add, the great part of the A2 upgrade is the noticeable spinability it gives rounds. First round normally spins the individual, the second round can then smash your spine. So Humane
I think the main problem they have with it is the dust/sand issue. Anything that fires from an open bolt position is going to have issues. Yes, it's current variation is a vast improvement on the old but I agree either a 6.8mm upgrade or 7.62 is needed.
After the recent issue with the MOD underspending their budget, it's going to be hard for them to raise enough funds to get the lads some new equipment.
But like jitsuwarrior said above, anything on the AR-15 platform would be great.
However something with a bullpup design would probably be more popular within the forces, especially for transferable uses into CQB.
Just a side point....my Grandad just looked over my shoulder and asked what I was doing. After telling him he remarks
"Bring back the No.4 .303. £5 to the first bloke who stands back up after taking one of those"
Oh old people...how you make us all laugh
Then my little brother comes out with
"Just give them all a P90, never fails me"
Me- " You mean on COD?"
Him- "Yeah, what else would I mean?"
Jesus mother of mary...
After the recent issue with the MOD underspending their budget, it's going to be hard for them to raise enough funds to get the lads some new equipment.
But like jitsuwarrior said above, anything on the AR-15 platform would be great.
However something with a bullpup design would probably be more popular within the forces, especially for transferable uses into CQB.
Just a side point....my Grandad just looked over my shoulder and asked what I was doing. After telling him he remarks
"Bring back the No.4 .303. £5 to the first bloke who stands back up after taking one of those"
Oh old people...how you make us all laugh
Then my little brother comes out with
"Just give them all a P90, never fails me"
Me- " You mean on COD?"
Him- "Yeah, what else would I mean?"
Jesus mother of mary...
SMLE - there's a good few of them in Afghanistan, only problem is the wrong side have them
The sa80 family and 5.56 do the job they are designed to do, and you can carry much more 5.56 then 7.62
The only problem with bringing up ar15/m4 etc as the solution platform is the default ammunition is also 5.56, so that loses the stopping power argument. (Though there are other ar15 styled weapons in other calibres - standard ar15 based weapons are 5.56, others for other jobs are other calibres)
A variety of weapons and an associated variety of calibre according to role, are the solution and are in use
The sa80 family & 5.55 are the standard, most but not all will carry that. Any group will have an appropriate mix of capabilities and other resources to call upon
If doing a different task then you take other equipment
We have a number of mixtures of items, some due to doctrines and are standard, some are UORs to meet requirements on the ground.
We won't be in Afghanistan for much longer (relatively) and will be doing other things afterwards.
When everyone has come home then decisions get made as to what happens to the UORs. They could be dropped or may go into the cupboard.
Bear in mind that irrespective of Afghanistan, Iraq etc that the GPMG was replaced long ago by the LSW, but people had some common sense and the GPMG remained. There was a perceived gap in capability if the LSW was allowed to replace the GPMG
The sa80 family and 5.56 do the job they are designed to do, and you can carry much more 5.56 then 7.62
The only problem with bringing up ar15/m4 etc as the solution platform is the default ammunition is also 5.56, so that loses the stopping power argument. (Though there are other ar15 styled weapons in other calibres - standard ar15 based weapons are 5.56, others for other jobs are other calibres)
A variety of weapons and an associated variety of calibre according to role, are the solution and are in use
The sa80 family & 5.55 are the standard, most but not all will carry that. Any group will have an appropriate mix of capabilities and other resources to call upon
If doing a different task then you take other equipment
We have a number of mixtures of items, some due to doctrines and are standard, some are UORs to meet requirements on the ground.
We won't be in Afghanistan for much longer (relatively) and will be doing other things afterwards.
When everyone has come home then decisions get made as to what happens to the UORs. They could be dropped or may go into the cupboard.
Bear in mind that irrespective of Afghanistan, Iraq etc that the GPMG was replaced long ago by the LSW, but people had some common sense and the GPMG remained. There was a perceived gap in capability if the LSW was allowed to replace the GPMG
i definetely agree the need an upgrade it annoys me when i see americans with m4's and m16 they are much better and reliable weapons.
i would like to see the british army with ar15's
i would like to see the british army with ar15's