Some M25 marshalling suggestions, what do you think?

[Agent Smith]

GOOD!

EZ: Well put. Most other sports work in this way.

We all seem to want this sorted so how do we take it forward?

I used to referee Ice hockey which is pretty fast and does require split second decisions, and tough penalty calls. We had to attend seminars regularly and were graded by experience.

We often had senior officials at matches to judge us and debrief at the end. Also at Pro level in the case of a complaint or serious penalty being contested, any video evidence was taken into account by the board.

For this to happen will take money and time but if we all push for it, it could happen.

If the promotors back it then perhaps UKPSF could start the wheels turning.

This will also help our "sport" be recognised as such if we are working professionally!

 

[stongle]

EZ,

pulling your chain. 99% of the solution is obvious to most, the problem is, it's not a stickyback tape and washing up bottle solution. The Term it's a bit Mickey Mouse but does the Job, ain't going to cut it anymore.

Not all Tounrmants have serious marshalling problems (MM seems alright to me, only played M25 or Milleniums otherwise), but we do need a solution across the board. I'd really like to see Millenium quality judging as the "aim" for all UK tournaments. I mean the Millenium series can make it "worth peoples while" to judge, so how do they do it?

Incentive?
Coercion?

or it maybe even means something?

 

[MrPink]

Originally posted by Red_Merkin
This isn't the first time this is the sixth time. And it's gotten worse not better.

I agree wholeheartedly Colin - and it's not just the on-field judging that has declined, on Sunday we were only Chrono'd in HALF our games and then only two players from each team

What happened to the dedicated Chrono Stations that a seperate Chrono Marshal could check all the players about to go on and armband them up while the game before progressed? They have been absent since the second leg Instead it has been left to the field judges to check people with the handheld (and often severely different reading) chronographs.

IIRC Safety is PARAMOUNT in paintball, not being Chrono'd either on or off the field is just a joke and also an accident waiting to happen.

 

[ez-rhino]

Response to R_M

Hi there,

Thank you for your comments. and I'm sorry you had either one or more bad games and that they were on the field I was responsible for.

I sincerely hope the marshal doing that check wasn't me, honestly I don't if it was, but I'd like to think I checked and called players correctly (I had trousers with union jack flags on 'em if u want to know which one I was).

Were you the player that came over after the game to dicuss moving to check calls? If you were then 1. Thank you for coming over at the end of the game to discuss calmly and 2. apologies for not getting it right in that instance.

I spoke several times during the day to all the marshals regarding personal observations and feedback from players. If we failed during your games I hope we at least picked it up enough for others

I understand completely that as a paying customer you expect a level of service which was not provided, personally I've the same at tournaments over the years, and I'm sure I'll experience it again in the not to distant future!

EZ-R

 

[ez-rhino]

Pinky comments

Originally posted by MrPink
I agree wholeheartedly Colin - and it's not just the on-field judging that has declined, on Sunday we were only Chrono'd in HALF our games and then only two players from each team

What happened to the dedicated Chrono Stations that a seperate Chrono Marshal could check all the players about to go on and armband them up while the game before progressed? They have been absent since the second leg Instead it has been left to the field judges to check people with the handheld (and often severely different reading) chronographs.

IIRC Safety is PARAMOUNT in paintball, not being Chrono'd either on or off the field is just a joke and also an accident waiting to happen.

Hi there,

I agree with your comments on chrono judging, I was stunned to hear that thee were no chrono stations or judges assigned to fields. I was supposed to be the chrono judge for my field but this changed at the last minute to ultimate.

When we choron'd 14 players the comment we got was 'I can't believe you're this far behind and making us all chrono"

EZ-R

 

[MrPink]

Pinky comments

Originally posted by ez-rhino
When we choron'd 14 players the comment we got was 'I can't believe you're this far behind and making us all chrono"

Ah, those will be the Players who have "Pro-Player"tm Invincible Eyes!

Personally - I'd rather go home late but able to see/drive

 

[ez-rhino]

GOOD!

Originally posted by Agent Smith
EZ: Well put. Most other sports work in this way.

We all seem to want this sorted so how do we take it forward?

I used to referee Ice hockey which is pretty fast and does require split second decisions, and tough penalty calls. We had to attend seminars regularly and were graded by experience.

We often had senior officials at matches to judge us and debrief at the end. Also at Pro level in the case of a complaint or serious penalty being contested, any video evidence was taken into account by the board.

For this to happen will take money and time but if we all push for it, it could happen.

If the promotors back it then perhaps UKPSF could start the wheels turning.

This will also help our "sport" be recognised as such if we are working professionally!

Ohhh you big tease!

Four things we need really for anything major to happen -

MONEY
TIME
RESOURCES
WILL

EZ-R

 

[Red_Merkin]

EZ-rhino

thanks for taking on board what i'm saying. I am very aware that you were shackled with people who didn't know what they were doing. Please understand that before we get all 'organised' about marshalling, that we need to specify what level of committment we want from the marshalls. I'm saying that first off, let's start with paint checks, becaue if marshalls can't do that properly then there's not point in teaching them what kind of situation requires a 141 and all that.

I forgot about the Chrono, i wasn't chronod even once, i could have been shooting 350 all day and you'd never have known.

Not all Tounrmants have serious marshalling problems (MM seems alright to me, only played M25 or Milleniums otherwise), but we do need a solution across the board. I'd really like to see Millenium quality judging as the "aim" for all UK tournaments. I mean the Millenium series can make it "worth peoples while" to judge, so how do they do it?

Last year Millennium Judes were given 300 pts for judging ,so you had to judge if you wanted to be in to win the series. This year it's still an incentive as it's worth 200 pts, but it's not as big as last year hense we've had trouble finding teams that want to marshall the Campaign Cup vs play in it, (except Sam Telford who REALLY wants to prove how good a marshall he is )
So a lot of teams do it for pride, and because the promoters make it worth their while. For some teams that means that they get a trip to another country and maybe some spending money, for others they will actually get paid, and for some they do it because they are sponsored to do it. I think it probably means a lot more to be a Millennium Series Marshall, than to say be a M25 marshall, so for some it might be worth doing for pride. I'm not that noble, and if you expect me to get shot at and yelled at all day then you gotta make me ritch in the process, cause frankly i'd rather play ball. I mean i got a day job to pay for paintball, i don't have to marshall to afford it, and a lot of ballers probably feel the same way.

 

[camsmith]

Originally posted by camsmith
...ended up throwing away what I'd written because it turned into a slanging session too easily.

OK, Red's put the points across.

I disagree with him on one point though.

Originally posted by Red_Merkin
How much training do you need to be able to run in an perform a paint check?

Take our last game on field 4 as an example. Because the marshalls did not enforce rules strongly enough at the start of the day, they must have copped a load of abuse from the players. Due to this they were over-enthusiastic and awarded a 1-4-1 against us (which was incorrectly justified by the marshall after the game) that they apologised for after the game.

A qualified marshall would NEVER allow this situation to happen. Firstly, they would apply the rules strictly, but fairly from the start of the day, causing less abuse from players.

Secondly, if they made a bad call, TOO BAD... live with it, you're human. Especially, do not apologise to the team and say (and I quote) "If we had known it was your first tournament, we would have been more lenient." This statement completely removed any remaining respect I had for the marshalls on this field. (see Red's earlier comments for other bad calls. I even had my team laugh at me after I ended up having to PLEAD with that field's marshalls to check a player... what's next, begging?)

I know this may sound harsh, but it's what has to happen to be a top quality marshall, referee, judge or whatever your sport calls it. I know. I have previously been qualified to referee an olympic sport at world championship level.

 

[ez-rhino]

Standards

When you're talking about standards I agree entirely.

Every sport I can think of, certainly that I am involved in (other than paintball) has a single rule book and guidance describes key competencies that need to be demonstrated.

Standardisation is a good starting point with assisting everyone in getting in right then you can compare like for like.

Levels of commitment from marshals would be agreed by the body responsible for controlling them, and if you couldn't commit to that you don't marshal.

We still operate in a very fractionated sport and until we operate fully with single point responsibility we will always have thse problems

EZ-R