Students Rioting today

[Syd (NSPL)]

This country is taxed beyond your wildest dreams buddy and we're all unhappy about it.

I watched a bit of telly recently about our national debt and one fact put it to startling perspective for me: if you threw a £50 note out of a window every second of every hour of every day, it would take you 3000 YEARS to throw out the equivalent of what we all owe as a country. Its disgusting and the people responsible for spending that amount of money and getting us where we are now really... well... they should be shot, but I don't wanna get back to AK47s and Mortors right now.

The bottom line is that there is no money for anything anywhere in our economy. Our public sector spends more than our private sector and that is best represented by a serpent eating its own tail. Sooner or later, there will be nothing left because our public sector does not generate any cash other than tax revenues that it then spends to generate less tax revenues.

Education should be free. Right now, it cannot be. There's no money and that's it. It is wrong. It is despicable. But it is reality.

Education is, by far, not the only part of our social system that is suffering and we all have to pay off that massive debt if we choose to remain in this country - in one form or another it costs us all the majority of the money we earn day in and day out.

Its a bleak picture and I am sorry that you are facing what you are. Don't let it put you off your chosen career path if you are passionate about your choice in life. We need you to get that education and make a difference in the future, correcting the wrongs of those before you if you can.

 

[SimonGiles]

Peacful protest gets you nowhere.

If you feel strong enough in your convictions and have the courage to make a physical stand, then I salute you. If only there were more like you then the country might not be in the sh*t hole that it now is.

There are people under the age of 20 in prison now for such acts of vandalism as pushing over a newspaper stand during the Iraq War demonstrations. Whilst a UK 'brown shirt' guilty of beating a middle aged, innocent passerby to death continues his merry employment as an Enforcer for our Facist State.

Those students who put their futures at risk to start the fight back deserve all our respect and support in my opinion. I wonder how many of us will be joining them when we can no longer afford to turn the heating on (but taxes and bank / state executive pay continues to increase year on year).

 

[Liam92]

Education should be free. Right now, it cannot be. There's no money and that's it. It is wrong. It is despicable. But it is reality.

but wouldnt you agree that without educating people at this level is vital for providing a stable income for the economy, since it is the highest earners that pay the highest amount of income tax?

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

I absolutely agree with you. As I said, I consider the fees on higher education wrong.

 

[Liam92]

I absolutely agree with you. As I said, I consider the fees on higher education wrong.

ahh sorry was trying emphasise that despite the economic climate, it should still be kept freeespecially in this time because charging fees to try and save money, will actually have a negative impact because it will turn away more students and so in the longer run there will be less income for the country.

 

[Return of the Silver Fox]

This government has a complete understanding of the result of it's spending cuts and the effect that will have on the nation in future years.
As tax payers we have an investment in what our tax pounds are paying for and the result of the current spending cuts WILL lead to civil unrest that this administration will no doubt deal with, as history shows, by using force to quell the masses.
The suggestion by the head of the met that water cannons should be used has been dismissed by government representatives not because it poses a threat to life and limb but, more likely, because the thought that pictures of kids being sprayed may upset tax paying parents and get them joining their kids on the barricades.
I predicted that, following this years general election, we would be arranging another one by July next year. The current situation gives me no cause to doubt that view.

 

[Thib]

This government has a complete understanding of the result of it's spending cuts and the effect that will have on the nation in future years.
As tax payers we have an investment in what our tax pounds are paying for and the result of the current spending cuts WILL lead to civil unrest that this administration will no doubt deal with, as history shows, by using force to quell the masses.
The suggestion by the head of the met that water cannons should be used has been dismissed by government representatives not because it poses a threat to life and limb but, more likely, because the thought that pictures of kids being sprayed may upset tax paying parents and get them joining their kids on the barricades.
I predicted that, following this years general election, we would be arranging another one by July next year. The current situation gives me no cause to doubt that view.

I agree about the kids being spray would make it worse.
Same for water cannons, it doesn't stop angry people, it make them becoming martyrs, and would increase the riots, and make them worse.

I have the "chance" to have seen this loads of time back in france, fighting against riots doesn't do anything else than increasing them.
The only way to solve it is to try protecting what they can without putting pressure on people striking/rioting, and trying to catch some leader and putting them into arrest for a good 48h when they do damages (but not before).
Only time can win against riots, showing no interest is the only way forward if you don't agree with the request forced by people rioting.

 

[ferret47]

a) It's no good expecting politicians / bankers etc to change because of some moral or social compromise, they have already proved time and again they are immune to such pressures.

b) It's no good expecting our judicial system to cope with them either; even if we do happen to get one of them in the dock, they generally have a whole slew of lawyers waiting to argue some technical point to get them off the hook.

c) It's no good using the voting box to get change ... they are all the same and I don't see voting once every 5 years or so is any form of effective control anyway .. a lot of nasty things can happen in five years and so you are effectively precluded form doing anything anyway for those 5 years.

With those three potential control systems revealed as useless .. what have we got left?
Any suggestions anybody?

Unfortunately sadly I believe you are right on these. Any of the politicians get charged for in effect fraud during the claims scandal- No.

In terms of the students. There are definitely some courses that deserve to be at University but alot that don't need to be or take on too many students - eg Nursing - the amount of universities that have nursing is far too many for the actual spaces available as a nurse and yet these all get a bursary and then have no commitment to paying back. A nurse can be paid through University then go somewhere else in effect the taxpayers put them through uni and get nothing back. Law is another and the list goes on. If these were lifted and apprenticeships used (ie training on the job) then it would force people back into putting their time more usefully into getting an actual job and also stop the amount of money given in grants and loans etc. Would this solve the UK debt crisis and imbalance of power? No but would be a start. Do I think a tution fee rise would help, possibly may deter some but still would be left with the problem and probably make it worse as taking more money out the system for these then in 25 years it's cut off and you don't have to pay anymore so leaves with debt then instead.

 

[Thib]

I want it to kick off but then again it is the nature of those type civil unrests that worries me because they have a life and momentum of their own, basically you'll have a hard time controlling anything once it does kick off.

We are supposed to have all sorts of social and judicial deterrents that work fine for the working class but have little to no effect when it comes to the privileged few.
I want those privileged few to experience some very real and extremely uncomfortable situations because I will argue this is the only way to get any change.

In my skewed opinion, incarceration and violence are the only deterrents that can now have any real affect on these people because those controls we have in place now are impotent and pointless.

If some body is banged up for a few years or introduced to some darker personalities who would have zero problem in inflicting some much-deserved physical pain, then this would have the required effect but of course, the latter will be ignored with the former hardly ever happening so as to be effectively ignored anyway.

I ain't saying this for effect or to provoke debate, I genuinely believe these privileged few have created a situation that leaves people with no alternative if change is needed.
I am saying all this because our politicians and big businesses have all maneuvered the situation to this point whereby penalties, deterrents and effective control have proved, and will continue to prove useless ...things are getting worse and if people want real social change then I'm afraid they will have to change their views on certain ideas of morality.

a) It's no good expecting politicians / bankers etc to change because of some moral or social compromise, they have already proved time and again they are immune to such pressures.

b) It's no good expecting our judicial system to cope with them either; even if we do happen to get one of them in the dock, they generally have a whole slew of lawyers waiting to argue some technical point to get them off the hook.

c) It's no good using the voting box to get change ... they are all the same and I don't see voting once every 5 years or so is any form of effective control anyway .. a lot of nasty things can happen in five years and so you are effectively precluded form doing anything anyway for those 5 years.

With those three potential control systems revealed as useless .. what have we got left?
Any suggestions anybody?

I am afraid most issues are seen in a lot of countries.
I am open to discussion to anybody having ideas how to change this, or just to share opinions.

I did study law and politics at Uni, being a stupid young idealist (I haven't changed) thinking I was just not understanding people running countries, and that people just didn't know of life was for the rest of the world.
After some years I released everybody who I knew and did same end up being completely corrupted and not thinking of the reason their motivations to go and do it, and so did choose going for a completely different way and as I wouldn't be able to change anything, just go life for my passion and see other countries, new people.

When I came in England, I was hopeful to discover a country in which I wouldn't see what I didn't like in France, and was running my country to a really bad future.
I slowly released UK do have most problems I did see back in France, and the rest of problems where just a bit different due to the difference between countries, but really similar.

I have no idea how we end up like this, neither how to go out of it.

Power and money corrupt people, and money push the other to blame people with power for their problems.
I guess the main problem is the human ...

Please take my words as general and this is an over exaggeration of the situation.