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Talking Bollox .... Myths demistified !!

Robbo

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Really interesting stuff, as usual, Pete. Having done a fair few clinics, it's always interesting how often people are totally unable to hit a static target at even the length of half a field! I'd always rather be on a field with people with tight fundamental skills - the very basics of the game are to shoot other players whilst not being shot yourself, and you can't do either solely by talking - good comms may help, but the purpose of those comms still feeds into shooting fools and staying alive, comms are not the end in themselves. I'd also suggest that knowing when to engage/not engage would be in that little mix of basic skills - choosing what gunfights to get involved in and then using your skills to win them is the most key aspect of play for me.

I think a lot of teams kid themselves as to what comms really are too - I think a lot of players get a kick out of knowing the "Xbox, Orange, apple, god etc" script "just like the pros". Actually, it strikes me as a lot more than that - watching the body language of team-mates and knowing when they'll need support, spotting them waling off the field and so on all allow you to gain information without shouting. I really enjoy playing with a couple of my long term team-mates, as I know from the body language that they'll be about to make a move, or that they have a lane held down and so on. Talking, personally, I find talking or shouting the least useful form of comms, as half the time you can't bloody hear it! Or, worse still, you assume you've been heard and stop watching a spot etc. Perhaps the most important comms is the talk off the field - discussing and planning the strategies, and updating them as a day unfolds.

If you think about it - most top teams would suffer more from being given really inaccurate, swervy paint than being made to play in silence!
Kevin, I agree pretty much with everything you say because in essence, you seem to be advocating the use of the basics rather than indulging in some of the aspects of paintball that just sound good.

I'd like to know what people think what the top ten elements of paintball play actually are ... however, it's no good just nominating your top ten, you have to qualify them in some way.
I don't mean posting another 'War and Peace' like mine but a brief outline as to what and why will do ...

And just so we don't start off on the wrong foot here, I am gonna nominate Staying tight and accurate shooting as the top two - Actually, I place them at equal first place and so it's be interesting to see what people think are the most important elements from 3 to 10.
I'm pretty sure some of Pebble's suggestions will be in there but I'd like to know which ones and where ...
However, if you wish to suggest an element of play that you believe is first or second that differs from mine then please post it ... It'll be interesting to see if anyone does after reading what's gone before in this thread.
Have Fun !!! ..... Peace out !!!!
 

Kevin Winter

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Dec 10, 2008
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I'm not sure I could come up with a top ten! However, a top three is simple IMHO:

1 Shoot straight - you won't win games if you don't eliminate players, and all the staying tight in the world won't help you win games if you can't pressure the opposition and take advantage of it.

2 Stay tight - obvious - no matter how accurate you are, you'll get shot if you're sloppy!

3 Judgement - knowing when to get involved in a gunfight! I see a lot of players get shot out by trying to snap out amongst a barrage of paint, when they would best serve their team by switching to wider target or simply tucking in and riding it out for a few seconds
 
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Robbo

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Fifty Quid up for Grabs .... and a Plat membership [if you haven't already got it] ....... All you gotta do is win !!

I think this thread might be better served if I mention a few of the other skill-sets, techniques and/or considerations and to then ask you guys to put them in some form of order of importance :- You are more than welcome to use all, any or none of my suggestions and as long as it makes sense, you've got a chance of winning.
The only thing I will stipulate is that first and second place are held by staying tight and shooting accurately - the rest is up to you.

In no particular order, here are the elements of play that I think must be considered - if I've left anything out which is more than likely then please feel free to add your own suggestions .... A prize of fifty quid goes to the best answer but we must have at least ten entries to trigger that payment.

Good Luck to everyone ..... come to think of it, I could do with fifty quid ... hmmmnnn ....... :whistle:

Preparation of hardware
- making sure your marker/loader/air-regs and lines etc are all in working order.

Physical fitness ...

Mental preparation [Don't turn up pis$ed out of your heads, or flying like a kite with the munchies]

Paint - it's storage and quality.

Game Plans - 'Tactics' for want of a better word.

Communication - keep it simple, keep it short ..

Teamwork - must be specified though ....

Practice - leading up to the event ...

Pit Crew

Discipline - in terms of adherence to game plans, doing the job assigned to you [if indeed you have one], no silly bunker-runs.

Timing - of bunker -runs, snap-shots, lane-shots, gun-running, sacrificial-runs.

Break-out practice
specific to field at the event.


And so, I think with what I've already mentioned in this thread, first place is going to be shared by staying tight and accuracy of shot and therefore second place remains unfilled by default ..

1. Staying tight & Shooting accurately ..

2. Above

3. ?

4.

And so on ....
 

slam

Euro, ICPL and ECPL ref.
Feb 27, 2002
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While I definitely won't say it is one of the top five skills.
I think Control/personal discipline is important.
You can have the best skill set going but if you are consistently getting 2 for 1's or 3 for 1's, your team isn't winning jack.
Penalty magnets lose tournaments
 

Robbo

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Agreed Slam - it's true to say penalties can lose games or even matches but it's also true to say the incidence of wiping and playing on etc has been reduced by tighter marshalling these days.
However, this is one consideration I hadn't thought of and so it would have to be considered in the top ten most important aspects of play but as to which place?
Time will tell .....
 

onasilverbike

I'm a country member!
If you stand in the "Pro" pits, the only time you hear players and coaches insisting that communication is the most important thing in paintball is when they are loosing points. As an impartial observer I have seen it so many times whereas if they are up on points and/or numbers a coach may make a comment that he can't hear anybody talking. Truly great players often seem to have a zen like level of field awareness, they think differently and visualise a 3D map of the field with their opponents and teammates in their positions. Can pick out the shadows and the barrel tips of opponents and the subtle changes in gun noise when a player switches from one side of a bunker to another or bumps up the field unseen. Things that having a loudmouth shouting in your ear'ole all the time may distract them from. much "Paintball IQ" is learnt from experience, practice and repetition, some of it can not be learnt or taught and could be described as natural talent/ability/aptitude. Often, the most vocal of players seem to be making up for some other lacking ability with their constant on field call and repeat.

Far more important in my opinion is team spirit and bonding. If the team don't gel and are not working as a unit and there is no 'esprit de corps' how are players going to fight for their brothers and have each others backs when the going gets tough and, however good their individual skill sets, they come up against opponents that are technically as good as them. I takes a true team player to realise that you are still part of the team if you get sat, its for the greater good of the team, you make yourself busy supporting and cheer leading your teammates wherever possible, not just go and sulk in the corner.
 

Robbo

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I've often wondered about 'team spirit', and I think it comes down to a question of chronology.
I've been in and around the pro team circuit for well over ten years both when I played pro over here in Europe and in the US, and as a coach, once again on both sides of the Atlantic.
And I've noticed a common property whereby the most successful teams have the most conspicuous team spirit.
And so my question would be, 'What came first, the egg or the chicken' ?
Winning breeds team spirit, it's an emergent property of success.
I'd go as far as to say that in the most successful teams, there is always a great team spirit.

However, is the reverse true ?
Does every team with a great team spirit automatically become winners?
My answer would be 'No' not all of them would necessarily be successful.
I've known many teams who have a great team spirit but haven't gained any great success.
I believe team spirit gives the impression it's a prime determinant for success but not because it's a causal factor but because of its association with success.
What do you think Pete ?

PS I thought we were meeting up :)
 

onasilverbike

I'm a country member!
Interesting reply Pete, I agree that winning encourages team spirit, in a 'we are all riding the wave when things are going our way' fashion, but true team spirit is measured by the ability to stick together and dig deep when things aren't so rosy.

My observation is that those teams that ride together, bunk in together, eat together, socialise together, train and/or play other sports off field together have the best chance of making it through those tough matches. When they are all virtually living in each others pockets it weeds out the characters that don't gel with the mass and makes them a true band of brothers. When the going gets tough these are the teams that have each others backs, they understand each other and apply their strengths to the benefit of the unit.

Years ago, I was at an event with Alan Hansen as a speaker, on the topic of teamwork, one of his anecdotes concerned his time as a Scottish International and the that there was a definite schism in the team between the players from domestic Scottish clubs and those from the English clubs. His point being that, despite there being many talented players in the team on both sides, they couldn't convert that into results on the field as they wouldn't even socialise off field or train together effectively due to the palpable atmosphere.

I wouldn't say that every team with a 'great team spirit' are necessarily winners, but that teams that really make the effort to bond are better mentally equipped to win!
 

Robbo

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I think utilising Scotland as an example of your point is a good one because every time those Jocks played us, they might well have been waaaay down the FIFA list in relation to us but they always seemed to carve out a result/performance which belied their relative position in the FIFA table.
The Jocks may not have won many times but a lot of their results were within a goal or two of England's, a 1-0, 2-1 ... you get my drift ?
Now, the Jocks, with all due respect never really had a stellar line-up over the years like we were supposed to have but their team spirit [for want of a better word] made them tough to beat, real tough.

The psychological volleyball that players find themselves immersed in leading up to these games would generally favour the Jocks but undermine England's resolve which was strange and probably needs closer inspection if we want to tease out the connection between psychological attitudes [team spirit] and performances. Superficially it tends to suggest that the Jocks can muster a lot more team spirit in the face of those ******* English Oppressors than we can against them.

The only observation I can make that provides utility for my argument is that although the Jock's team spirit made them tough to beat for us, they never managed to duplicate that team spirit when playing other nations ..... that's a bit strange really but I'm sure it gives some insight into this debate but I'm not altogether sure what it's trying to tell us.
Hmmnnn, interesting .....very interesting.
Good point Pierre !!!

Another Pierre

PS Mind you, if we look at what Wales did in the recent European Cup, that needs closer inspection because they lost to us but done well against the others, fantastically so, and it surely can't all be down to Bale though I do think he was their Talisman due to his ability and his performances in that cup.
 

onasilverbike

I'm a country member!
I'm not much of a soccer follower and can't really comment on individual matches, but there was real needle whenever Scotland met England, but from his speech there was definitely a split in the squad. Often these 'grudge matches' throw up a result far greater than the sum of the components, Just as a team can have a physiological block when faced with a 'bogie' opponent. When Nexus were in their heyday they still had a mental barrier to overcome whenever they met Joy!

Otro Pedro