Triggerbounce scandal at CC finals amB!

[RoryM]

It's all gone quiet over there.....

Since Dan posted the rule and Ralph clarified what happened, those complainants have gone quiet.

Perhaps MrCosworth should speak to his back player and start blaming him for having a faulty gun, rather than the judges for losing their place. As Robbo says in other posts, its easier to blame the marshalls for your faliure.

To those that say 'I had my gun tested five or six times and in was fine' It probably was then! But as you fire the gun, that mechanical action causes something in physics we call 'vibration' and this 'vibration', can cause things to move, such as screws, boards, you get the drift? What about all those occasions we have seen people just pick their gun up to go out for the next gameand for some reason, it has malfunctioned in some way or another? Are triggers excluded from this area of chaos theory?

We, the players are responsible for our markers, and therefore responsible for any on field infringements that may occour. Maybe we should test our guns everytime we go on the field. I know i got my chrony judge to do that and he found four suspect triggers before they got on the field!.

I am probably as guilty as the rest of not checking for this in the past, but after the weekend, I know what I have to do!


To those that got caught, tough! your gun, your fault.

To the judges that caught them, good job guys, sometimes you can't win. You get bitched at if you don't do your job, you get bitched at when you do!

nuff said

Rory

 

[cgrieves]

There is a factor called Hysteresis that is worth understanding.

When you push a a switch, for argument's sake let's say a microswitch, there is a point at which it activates or switches. Click. After this, you must withdraw the switch beyond a certain point (Click again) before you can start the activation cycle again. This zone between the first "on" click and second "off" click is the Hysteresis.

In paintball marker terms, if the trigger has no hysteresis or the hysteresis is too small, your marker will bounce due to the inevitable recoil of the marker pulling the switch back to the beginning of the activation cycle relative to a static trigger finger. That is classic trigger bounce.

This effect exists in all most switching systems, whether it's a physical artifact of the switch or a software feature. And as mentioned it's up to you, the player to make sure your trigger setup is such that it wont' bounce, especially if you've adjusted and tuned the trigger. If your trigger can't be adjusted satisfactorily, then you need to get on the blower to the manufacturer for assistance.

In my opinion it's pretty irrelevant if your marker has been to ten, or a thousand fields and been passed as safe. If a marshall can get it to bounce, it's illegal. Triggers, microswitches etc all wear and age, and the hysteresis properties change over time. It's the players responsiblity to choose how close to the bounce zone they wish to tune their triggers, so don't go blaming the marshalls for merely detecting effects that you don't want to admit to.

Lecture over....

 

[Fatty]

Rory bit dumb that any of the other marshals didn't notice the TB, and if im right no settings were changed on the gun!
Even max and alex (NYX) tested the gun and sayd its fine.
Just saying its pretty weird because even we played there at sunday (splatch field)
and imo its dumb to try get TB by keeping the trigger in "one" position because we all know thats inpossible at game.
Just my thoughts

 

[cgrieves]

Originally posted by Fatty
and imo its dumb to try get TB by keeping the trigger in "one" position because we all know thats inpossible at game.
Just my thoughts

If I'm not mistaken, that's the definition of trigger bounce.....

If you have to make a separate finger movement on the trigger for each ball then you are legal. If you can keep your finger still and the marker does the business on it's own then it's illegal.

 

[IanC]

Originally posted by PEACHIE

2. How did Phil Webb convince marshall on our field that the two markers in question were not bouncing when the marshall concerned was adamant that they were and would not let us on field to play?

I think he probably said "I'm Phil Webb, I know loads about guns, I sell loads of guns, I fix lots of guns. You do not, behave!"

Or words to that effect!

 

[Fatty]

If im asked whats one trigger pull its full back and forward travel. when you put trigger at midway just trying to get TB its just a joke.
The TB test is almost always done when some a$$ just wanto do some damage to some team. usually these things are noticed at chrono but if you just wanto try and try to get TB some gun you only need some little practice and puff in right position almost every eletronic gun will shoot more than 1 ball because of the recoil.
again my thoughts

 

[cgrieves]

If im asked whats one trigger pull its full back and forward travel. when you put trigger at midway just trying to get TB its just a joke.

I think you're missing the point. No matter how or where in the trigger length you attain trigger bounce, it is illegal, as it should be. My marker will not bounce no matter where in the pull stroke you test it. If yours does, then there is insuffient hysteresis in the trigger cycle, therefore you should fix it. It's in the rules in black and white!

 

[cjansen]

Exactly!

Originally posted by cgrieves
I think you're missing the point. No matter how or where in the trigger length you attain trigger bounce, it is illegal, as it should be. My marker will not bounce no matter where in the pull stroke you test it. If yours does, then there is insuffient hysteresis in the trigger cycle, therefore you should fix it. It's in the rules in black and white!

That's really it, right there. If you can make it bounce at all, it shouldn't be on the field. And I say this after having lost our place in the DMA finals because of a tirgger bounce. We couldn't make it bounce again after the fact, but there's no doubting that it did happen. It's an especially hard pill to swallow, as those points could have gotten us first or second for the year, instead of fourth.

Bottom line - if you can make it bounce, no matter how you pull the trigger, it shouldn't be on the field.

 

[IanC]

Has anybody found a particular type of switch more prone to bouncing? My Impluse doesn't seem to bounce, but it has an enourmous lever switch above the trigger.

Could it be things with optoelectronic trigger switches are more prone to it?

 

[MrCosworth -=HypnotizeSweden=-]

It's all gone quiet over there.....

Originally posted by RoryM
Since Dan posted the rule and Ralph clarified what happened, those complainants have gone quiet.

Perhaps MrCosworth should speak to his back player and start blaming him for having a faulty gun, rather than the judges for losing their place. As Robbo says in other posts, its easier to blame the marshalls for your faliure.

To those that say 'I had my gun tested five or six times and in was fine' It probably was then! But as you fire the gun, that mechanical action causes something in physics we call 'vibration' and this 'vibration', can cause things to move, such as screws, boards, you get the drift? What about all those occasions we have seen people just pick their gun up to go out for the next gameand for some reason, it has malfunctioned in some way or another? Are triggers excluded from this area of chaos theory?

We, the players are responsible for our markers, and therefore responsible for any on field infringements that may occour. Maybe we should test our guns everytime we go on the field. I know i got my chrony judge to do that and he found four suspect triggers before they got on the field!.

I am probably as guilty as the rest of not checking for this in the past, but after the weekend, I know what I have to do!


To those that got caught, tough! your gun, your fault.

To the judges that caught them, good job guys, sometimes you can't win. You get bitched at if you don't do your job, you get bitched at when you do!

nuff said

Rory

Im not quiet because ref was right, its because you guys keep talking BS, I know there was no TB, I have tested the gun like 20 times at home and Im MAD! NO TB!!! This piethrowing will not make anything better.. one bad call.. thats it.. made a hell of a difference for us.. Whatever.. See you next year.

Mikko Team Hypnotize