Yes Robbo, think your right there. Come to think of it I think I did bump two programs into one.
Universe
- Thread starter JWarren
- Start date
So knowing all would be ultimately boring...I'm afraid a guy called Godel and his Incompleteness theorem precludes us from having a theory of everything finally being discovered, it's affectionately acronymed as TOE.
Godel was a smart guy, both a mathematician and a philosopher; and is best known for his incompleteness theorem which in basic terms prevents mathematics from proving certain propositions true or false by using the rules of that particular area itself.
It sounds a bit up its own ass but some people have described Godel's work as one of the most important in mathematics/science.
Its relevance here is that the rules and axioms we use in science to understand and frame the world in which we live, ultimately determine there are things about our world that we cannot ever know using the scientific rules we have available to us.
And so, there will be no 'Road to Damascus' epiphany for science in terms of theories of everything being validated, we'll have to live in ignorance and perhaps that is a preferable place for us ....I qiute like the mystery of not knowing, science thrives on it
(had it been possible obviously)Hence my attraction to history, it's not an exact science. People tend to say that history is written by the victor and to an extend that is true. Though new facts are always discovered, grey areas will remain and it is one of the sciences that can be forever debated.
Hmm, might just start a new thread, but I need to think about a subject most people can understand and know something about... (or even care about)
It's turtles all the way down!!!
I've mentioned this before on these forums but some of you might find a short book called "God's Debris" interesting. Available as a free pdf here: http://www.andrewsmcmeel.com/godsdebris/
It's not supposed to be fact and certainly not what I believe but gives an interesting take on what could be true.
The basic premiss is that the big bang occurred because in the beginning, all there was, was an omnipotent, all knowing, all seeing God. Which as Buddha3 pointed out would be boring as hell! So being bored, the only challenge for such a God would be to see what happened if He were to destroy himself, hence, explosion grande!
The story its self is not a work of literary genius by any streatch, but the ideas are thought provoking.
I've mentioned this before on these forums but some of you might find a short book called "God's Debris" interesting. Available as a free pdf here: http://www.andrewsmcmeel.com/godsdebris/
It's not supposed to be fact and certainly not what I believe but gives an interesting take on what could be true.
The basic premiss is that the big bang occurred because in the beginning, all there was, was an omnipotent, all knowing, all seeing God. Which as Buddha3 pointed out would be boring as hell! So being bored, the only challenge for such a God would be to see what happened if He were to destroy himself, hence, explosion grande!
The story its self is not a work of literary genius by any streatch, but the ideas are thought provoking.
I will read this book, over the next few days, time permitting, and let you know but I don't like guys writing books just so's they can see their own name up in lights...there's a lot of these dix around, trust me.
They tend to disappear up their own ass when trying to explain what is going through their drug crazed minds and I don't get much past the second chapter, so let's hope this one's different.
Anyway, I love thought provoking sh!t and if he is as good as you say, then I'll give you a pat on the back or maybe even a life-long plat membership
They tend to disappear up their own ass when trying to explain what is going through their drug crazed minds and I don't get much past the second chapter, so let's hope this one's different.
Anyway, I love thought provoking sh!t and if he is as good as you say, then I'll give you a pat on the back or maybe even a life-long plat membership
On that note Jay, would it be possible for you to start a new thread that immerses itself in one of History's enduring problems.So knowing all would be ultimately boring...
Hence my attraction to history, it's not an exact science. People tend to say that history is written by the victor and to an extend that is true. Though new facts are always discovered, grey areas will remain and it is one of the sciences that can be forever debated.
Hmm, might just start a new thread, but I need to think about a subject most people can understand and know something about... (or even care about)
It may well be something akin to why we cannot understand why a certain historic figure chose the path he did (such as when Hitler made the fateful decision to split his forces when attacking Russia) or even why Napoleon chose to similarly attack Russia and got bashed up by the winter.
It's not as if a grown man (well half grown anyway) doesn't know that winter's coming for gawd's sake.
Jay, you are one of the most knowledgeable guys on history I have ever met (my knowledge is embarrassingly bad) and so it would be really cool to see some of your insight draped across some of the world's events.
That'd be fantastic! I look forward to reading your thoughts (on here of course not in a telepathic way!). Although I have to wonder if I should worry about what happens if you think it's cr@p!?I will read this book, over the next few days, time permitting, and let you know but I don't like guys writing books just so's they can see their own name up in lights...there's a lot of these dix around, trust me.
They tend to disappear up their own ass when trying to explain what is going through their drug crazed minds and I don't get much past the second chapter, so let's hope this one's different.
Anyway, I love thought provoking sh!t and if he is as good as you say, then I'll give you a pat on the back or maybe even a life-long plat membership
If I don't get past the second chapter, you will be receiving an invoice for my time ...but lucky for you, I'm a cheap-ass and if it takes me an hour to read those two chapters, the total invoice won't be much past a couple of hundred quid ..... start praying Frog !That'd be fantastic! I look forward to reading your thoughts (on here of course not in a telepathic way!). Although I have to wonder if I should worry about what happens if you think it's cr@p!?
One thing though Frog, when I have finished with the book, I am gonna be talking to you in your language ...........I will utter but one word ....'Redddit'
Maybe humans were not built to understand such things. I think of it like this. We operate in 3D and are adapted to it. I think of the universe as a different dimension and we are not built to understand the mysteries surrounding it. Similar to artificial intelligence not feeling emotion... Yet! Dum dum dummmmm
The universe is four dimensional I'm afraid mate, and we live in that environment and so we cannot detach ourselves from it as you suggest.
We have three dimensions of a spatial nature with the fourth being time, hence the term 'space-time' that is often used by cosmologists and astrophysicists.
And as for humans not being built to understand 'such things'?
I think this is fundamentally wrong because we do understand such things, we understand an awful lot; the fact we might be precluded (Godel's incompleteness theorem) from knowing everything shouldn't in any way, shape or form discourage us from learning as much as we can.
I'm afraid comparing AI and its inability to experience emotion (for now) with problems with our universe isn't really a valid comparison but it does provoke a valid question that I'll open up in another thread.
Can AI experience what we call emotion ?
It is the nature of debates such as these that other topics and questions will be spawned from the original discussion, and in that sense, this is probably the most organic of all forums, coooool !