Why Is Our Education System Failing Us?

[Rider]

And apparently all the teachers are pi$$ed ^^^

i'd agree

and as sid the fellow teacher says - the system does not want failure.

here in scotland we have specialised in developing an education system that rewards failure.

we created bull**** qualifications like "group awards", Access level, intermediate level and foundation level.

ffs people now get a greatbig list of qualifications for turning up, never mind actually having to apply themselves.

schools are too focussed (at the moment) on trying to achieve passes for everyone, rather than realising that some people really are wasting their time stuck in the comprehensive education system.

and that's where everything got f***ed up - when the grammar/academy or lower/upper schools, whatever split you use - came into effect back in the day.

it ruined the chance for the less academic among the populus to learn to do something really practical and worthwhile - it sounded the death knell of the UK skill base and screwed us royally for having a skilled industry base.

now the government want 50% of people leaving school to attend university. what a freaking joke. the 10% that went to the "real" universities was far more sensible. the other 40% should get the opportunity for further education agreed, but not in some silly pseudodegree in made-up-ness.

bring back the decent tech colleges - some of them had a phenomenal reputation for producing highly skilled, highly compentent individuals. now they are forced to be "universities" they are stuck with a range of degrees in "****tyness" as well as some really good courses - but their reputation has been tarred with the same brush as the other "pretend" universities.

but also take into account what primary teachers are forced to cover. gone are the days of the good ol' 3R's, (if your too young to know what that means, then pity help you....) and the rote learning of simple things like times-tables. (i remember having to spend the first 20min of class standing behind our desks chanting away...).

they now need to add in: social subjects; religious, moral and philosophical education; language; technology; science; art; music; and every other god-damn thing you can think of. and 90% of this is taught by the one teacher - a non-specialist in pretty much every aspect they teach.

i don't blame the primary teacher (my sister is one....) but the fact is they are forced to do this by the government. we see so many kids coming into secondary schools now who can barely read, write or do simple arithmetic - and it is getting worse. the simple fact is that the teachers don't have the time to devote to this at the very beginning of the kids' education. and that is where it fails - at the start.

we (the teachers) had the chance to "declutter" the curriculum here in scotland with the advent of "A Curriculum for Excellence" - but that got shafted by too many beaurocrats and arselickers wanting the chance to show off. as far as science goes, at any rate, the Royal Society are dubbing CfE as "the biggest disaster in education" - and yet Fiona Hislop the education minister is completely ignoring this and forgin on regardless.

now I have a real bee in my bonnet over this, as my own sons are going to be the first to get shafted by this new system as the assessments and courses are due to go live in 2014 - just as my eldest will start secondary.

anyway enough ranting - and apologies to anyone from a "new" university

 

[Mario]

You're not educated. You are taught to pass an exam.

Text talk - you guys should read some old skool letters from the 16 -1700's. Now that is text talk. It's merely an adaptation of the language. I find it particularly crass but i've no doubt ten years from now it will be in the venacular. Its the evolution of our language...

The reason why so many people get to go to university is in my opinion money. Money drives it forward. I personally think only the best of the best should go to uni and they should stop being run as businesses and return to academic institutions.

 

[HPUKer]

The reason why so many people get to go to university is in my opinion money. Money drives it forward. I personally think only the best of the best should go to uni and they should stop being run as businesses and return to academic institutions.

As far as I am aware a uni's main source of income is from research ventures, students are just an excuse for them to keep going, and to feed them the odd new researcher

Saying that, I do agree with you, and I think the higher education system is broken

Hell, the only reason I decided to go to Uni was because of the perception employers have that a degree = needed to do the job (or maybe that is actually my perception)

I am a firm beliver that it is the way a person applies themselves to a particular job that makes them successful or not



I understand there is a place for Uni, dont get me wrong - I think there are many benefits of it, but I also think there is a lot of room for the slack to be cut, the system redesigned, and more emphasis placed on skills.

Under the current system, employers should not place so much value on a degree (even though for practicalities sake, when recruiting, it may make sense to them as a first stage filter)

You're not educated. You are taught to pass an exam.

So true

From SATs through to degree it has always been about learning the papers, the only times I've found you have to think outside of the box a bit is when you are doing some kind of project or coursework

In terms of jobs (in my limited experience), I found that there is no exam to learn (apart from if seeking a professional qualification), you just have to straight up apply yourself

However, in many cases, even on this forum, many of the offending posters whose internet scribblings are riddled with poor grammar, homophones, greengrocers apostrophes, a lack of capitalisation and punctuation, profess to be receiving, or even to have completed, a university education. How can this be?

As long as one can convey a meaning across to everyone it is intended for, I see no problem in poor grammar etc. Standards should change, static standards are bad (well that may be a bit too extreme)

My question is, why are students passing with much lower abilities than in the past and, why are they then going on to university without a decent grasp of the English language?

Foreign students? It's not all about the language, its about communicating well with your target. If you are writing an academic essay, then of course you will see a high standard of use of English, if you are writing a post on a forum, then of course you will see a slip in English - what is your exposure to Uni students? Do you read their academic writing, or do you read their posts on a forum? Perspectives change

 

[onasilverbike]

How is it, we get guys on here pleading for the welfare of people who can't even be bothered to use Spellcheck and their spelling/grammar rivals that of an anvil's?

Why is it, some of us are feeling it more important to focus on sympathising and making excuses for these lazy bastids than focusing on the real problem, that of their laziness or the way they have prioritised their own education?

It is just insane when we reward ignorance instead of chastising it.

Indeed, a lot of it is plain laziness, and the "Its too hard" attitude!

Snax:

Although I struggled to comprehend a lot of your post I sympathise that exams are stressful. I am of an opinion that they are not necessarily the best benchmark of achievement and that coursework or vocational qualifications may well be a more fair system. Some excel in exams, but for most its a hard and stressful process, a process that bears little resemble to the workplace.

However, don't for one minute think that it is any harder for you or your generation than it was for anyone else, we all, to a degree, had to go through the process of revision, mocks, revision and exams at your age.

Sid & Rider:

Nice to have some input from teachers and to discover that they are not all bleeding heart liberals. I have a lot of empathy for the situation you find yourselves in. Rider also gives a great insight to the background of the system and its failings.

I don't necessarily agree with a return to Grammar Schools, Secondary Moderns and Technical Schools. I believe that people develop at different ages and that segregating them at, for example, the age of 11, is not necessarily the right approach. I can think of examples of Grammar School pupils who were failed by the system and have gone on to excel in a trade and also Secondary Modern kids who have worked hard in further education to gain academic qualifications.

However, I can see a greater case for the the return of proper Universities, Polytechnics and Technical Colleges.

You're not educated. You are taught to pass an exam.

Text talk - you guys should read some old skool letters from the 16 -1700's. Now that is text talk. It's merely an adaptation of the language. I find it particularly crass but i've no doubt ten years from now it will be in the venacular. Its the evolution of our language...

The reason why so many people get to go to university is in my opinion money. Money drives it forward. I personally think only the best of the best should go to uni and they should stop being run as businesses and return to academic institutions.

I appreciate that language is an evolving beast, and that this in a natural and healthy process.

Harry:

Good post, you know I always have time for what you have to say, however; I believe that communication is a life skill, and, as such, greater emphasis should pe placed upon it, especially amongst those who are deemed to have a beter education.

Yes, it makes me cringe when I read the atrocious posts from university students and graduates. I have also had to decipher letters, aplications, emails etc from graduates, to be brutally honest, such communications do little to gain my respect.

I appreciate that not everybody can have the highest standards of English, but those that are allegedly educated at uiversity level should stand out above the crowd. As graduates, they may have a reasonable degree in their subject (assuming it is a worthwhile subject in the first place), but their lack of ability to communicate in a clear manner is surely a hinderence in their subsequent career development.

 

[Rider]

you'll notice i don't advocate a return to grammar/academy set up either.

but what there does need to be is a better way of allowing people to be taught what is best for them - and, granted, at the age that is appropriate for them.

the division in grammar/academy/whatever, in scotland at least, did allow a second chance at being assessed for suitability. if you failed the old 11 plus and were "relegated" to the lower school, you still had a chance the following year to make up for it and get moved up. though i have to say i don't think shuffling pupils about is good for their social development.

my main advocation would be to bring back high standard polytechnics and allow pupils the chance to attend them instead of your regular comprehensive.

we allow this for a select few pupils in our school - but it needs to be far more widely applied. all CfE will do is bring the majority of kids down to the same level. it plays at a more "holistic" approach to education, bringing in areas of social responsibility and other bull**** that should be taught by parents/guardians/carers rather than teachers, and sidelines the fact that many kids NEED a challenging academic environment.

 

[SimonGiles]

I do not believe modern mass schooling in the UK is about education, it is a form of child day care, thereby allowing both (?) parents to work.

 

[Kem]

it is too true that the education system in this country is terrible.
my spelling and grammar certainly desire alot of improvement. however I do feel that a complete reform of the education system is needed.

There are is far too much pressure on schools on getting the A-C pupils and all you are ever taught is how to pass a test without any real education take place.

I remember asking my teachers at school "yea but why does it do that or why does that happen" and often the response was "becuase it is and thats all you need to know to pass your exams."

So we never got a full understanding of processes in maths and science it was simply to "solve this you do this" and then you get the right answer.
but never any reason why.

Personally i feel that, not everyones talents lay in the thinking arts, my cusin i not as good with mathmatics as me but he can build a wall a hell of a lot better then me(bricklayer).

Education system should look more at producing people with individual skills as apposed to the A-c idiots the produce now

 

[John C]

you'll notice i don't advocate a return to grammar/academy set up either.

but what there does need to be is a better way of allowing people to be taught what is best for them - and, granted, at the age that is appropriate for them.

the division in grammar/academy/whatever, in scotland at least, did allow a second chance at being assessed for suitability. if you failed the old 11 plus and were "relegated" to the lower school, you still had a chance the following year to make up for it and get moved up. though i have to say i don't think shuffling pupils about is good for their social development.

my main advocation would be to bring back high standard polytechnics and allow pupils the chance to attend them instead of your regular comprehensive.

we allow this for a select few pupils in our school - but it needs to be far more widely applied. all CfE will do is bring the majority of kids down to the same level. it plays at a more "holistic" approach to education, bringing in areas of social responsibility and other bull**** that should be taught by parents/guardians/carers rather than teachers, and sidelines the fact that many kids NEED a challenging academic environment.

I would like to see it go back to a grammar school setup accross the board.
Thats the first step in getting Britain back to the standard of education we were at just 20 years ago.
Its very easy to forget, that in the 70s and 80s the Japanese were behind us in the fields of high tech electronics and computers.

Right now many US technology companies have a Brit or three locked up in the back room being clever. Thats not going to continue if our education system stays in decline.



I went to a grammar school. Having directly experienced it I feel very strongly that academic selection is an essential part of a successful education system.

There were kids in my class, who simply wouldnt have survived at a comprehensive school.
One of our years most clever students was borderline coming in at all because while he was very academically gifted, he was very bad socially.


At the local comp, many of the kids had very different problems. Arsen, Violence happened daily.
The school was massively funded but its success rate was dismal because no teachers wanted to teach there.

The whole place was done up like a secure asylum.



Despite what the Labour government try to tell us, some of our population would be better off learning practical skills rather than academic skills.

Somebody needs to clean the roads and that person does not need a degree.


Lumping all types of students together is not going to help either.
It gives the appearence of fairness for all when in reality its not fair on anyone.

 

[Rider]

exactly my point.

but i don't feel it needs to be done the same way it was done before.

 

[John C]

exactly my point.

but i don't feel it needs to be done the same way it was done before.

Sorry I went on a bit of a rant there. It wasnt aimed at you or anybody in particular.
OK maybe Gordon Brown Id give anything to spend an evening with him in guantanamo...



Im not exactly sure what the difference is between a polytechnic and a grammar school?
But Im completely and fanatically pro academic selection.


Without it all we have is financial selection. Which suits these fancy pants politicians im sure. Maybe the state can pay for their kids private schooling?

My family is from a working class background, we would not enjoy the standard of living we do currently if it wasnt for academic selection and of course the hard work and dedication of the students involved.

And the hard work of the teachers of course Frazer