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Woodland Events - A flash in the pan ? ..... [Poll Test]

Robbo

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It's difficult to deny the success that Dave, James and Twizz have had these past years but that 'success' comes with its own limitations - those being, the lack of significant growth and influx of young players.
The bottom line is, and always has to be real growth, and that's gauged by bums on seats - in the last five years, say, how many teams have been entering UKWM year on year ?
I'd be interested to know ….. if only to better inform those who've posted/voted in this thread.
 

James ECI

UK Woodland Masters
Jul 31, 2007
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Kent
It's difficult to deny the success that Dave, James and Twizz have had these past years but that 'success' comes with its own limitations - those being, the lack of significant growth and influx of young players.
The bottom line is, and always has to be real growth, and that's gauged by bums on seats - in the last five years, say, how many teams have been entering UKWM year on year ?
I'd be interested to know ….. if only to better inform those who've posted/voted in this thread.
I'll get a team list together, year on year new teams HAVE been coming through.

Another good example is the Turks and what they have done bringing new blood in. Not just to give themselves an advantage but because they see the need to help the next gen of players. They have genuinely good reasons for their actions which go way above their own interests/agendas.

I will endeavour to get those numbers Robbo as I think they will paint a very positive picture indeed
 
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Tony Harrison

What is your beef with the Mac?
Mar 13, 2007
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It isn't a flash in the pan - the UKWM has been running for a number of years, along with Tim's ICC events in the US and the other "Classic" events that are run.

Woods/Classic events give an alternative to the relentlessness and high burnout rate of supair events, and remind us how we all started out - by playing in the woods.

And that is what paintball is all about - choice.

Also, I think it's unfair to judge the success of the UKWM on "influx of new players" alone. It's not like there's a sign up at every customer site saying "Right, you've played as a walk on, now you need to play the UKWM".

Most new players find out about tournaments by chance - there is no clear path of progression for them from the "rental" stage, so unless they happen to meet someone who plays tournaments or bump into a team at a site, they may not know that teams exist.

The UKWM is run by 3 guys, doing it on a part time basis. None of them own the site the event is run on. They've been at it for six seasons now, so for a woods series to survive that long is a miracle in itself. And I think they've done it by staying true to the game and not being greedy.

If they had the resources to put on, say, a Northern or Midland series as well as the Southern series......you know, like the old Northern/Midlands/Southern league.

And if it wasn't for the UKWM, the Turks probably wouldn't be back playing.
 
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Robbo

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I'll get a team list together, year on year new teams HAVE been coming through.

Another good example is the Turks and what they have done bringing new blood in. Not just to give themselves an advantage but because they see the need to help the next gen of players. They have genuinely good reasons for their actions which go way above their own interests/agendas.

I will endeavour to get those numbers Robbo as I think they will paint a very positive picture indeed
The more positive the numbers, the more positive the outlook we've got.

As a brief aside, I've just been contacted by a friend of mine from the US and he told me something that is probably already out there but I just have to check first before I go on-line with it.
If it's true then I'm really pleased on a personal level but it's also really good news on an industry level.
It's a big event for sure but not necessarily one that affects us in the UK, directly.
 

James ECI

UK Woodland Masters
Jul 31, 2007
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The UKWM is run by 3 guys, doing it on a part time basis. None of them own the site the event is run on. They've been at it for six seasons now, so for a woods series to survive that long is a miracle in itself. And I think they've done it by staying true to the game and not being greedy.

If they had the resources to put on, say, a Northern or Midland series as well as the Southern series......you know, like the old Northern/Midlands/Southern league.

And if it wasn't for the UKWM, the Turks probably wouldn't be back playing.
Dam straight we've not put our collective hand in the cookie jar!

Maybe more fool us but we were never in this for the quick quid.

As I have said there is no one who has come close to competing with us and I think that is largely due to not wanting to start small AND wanting to be allowed to take the biggest cookie out of the jar!

Everyone knows we took flack on social media for our decisions but believe it or not they are the ones we believe to be best for the player base in the local community.

If you do the right thing, even if it takes a bit longer, you will reap the reward (sadly not always financial)

I'm also very sorry we have inflicted Darron from the turks back on UK paintball
 
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Dave S ECI

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Jul 17, 2001
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In terms of timelines and numbers for the UKWM:

2014 - started as the "Old School 7 Man" - 49 players at Pilot event at Holmbush, 3 more events that year with similar numbers
2015 - Two rounds of 7 Man only attracted 4 teams / 28 players. Final event got switched to 5 Man and we had 45 players attend.
2016 - Stayed at 5 Man. Round 1 expanded to 75 players, Round 2 & 3 100 players, Round 4 130 players.
2017 - Worked with Bristol Activity Centre and NPF to expand UKWM series, 9 dates, lowest attendance maybe 80 players at one of the Bristol legs up to 125? players at the final leg at Holmbush.
2018 - Returned to focus on Holmbush purely - standalone warm up (100 players) and 7 Man events (98 players) with a 5 date series adding 5 Man and 3 Man divisions to the series. Average attendance of 130-140 players per series event with Round 3 being the biggest UKWM with 165 players, including All Americans coming over to play.
2019 - Biggest amount of playing time offered by UKWM ever - with 9 dates on the 2019 calendar. Two day international event didn't land as we had planned but turned it into a 10 Man / 5 Man and 3 Man event. With some of the anger around player behaviours and reffing we have reduced the cap for events now with Round 3 capped at 100 players and with teams on the waiting list.

There is something to be said about growth but there was a natural cap on what we (UKWM) could achieve while still holding down real world jobs. I feel we've done ourselves proud but also are no longer chasing growth for the sake of growth. Managing the event to quality is a renewed focus for us.

What has also happened is that we've created churn and movement of players - so players that mobilised to play UKWM may not still play it but like OAPB are now enjoying scenario / big games more and SC Reapers are playing a full CPPS season this year - which is cool to see as those players go on their own journeys too.
 
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olliewidd

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Dam straight we've not put our collective hand in the cookie jar!

Maybe more fool us but we were never in this for the quick quid.

As I have said there is no one who has come close to competing with us and I think that is largely due to not wanting to start small AND wanting to be allowed to take the biggest cookie out of the jar!

Everyone knows we took flack on social media for our decisions but believe it or not they are the ones we believe to be best for the player base in the local community.

If you do the right thing, even if it takes a bit longer, you will reap the reward (sadly not always financial)

I'm also very sorry we have inflicted Darron from the turks back on UK paintball
Don't worry about it James. He went out and found lots of other people just like him so that he didn't stick out too much and now we have 3 squads of people who are just plain broken really.

We used to have team meetings to decide our future direction as a team but we all got really annoyed having to stand up and say 'hi, my name is ....... and I have a drinking problem'. It all kind of spiralled after that so we decided to use the UKWM as therapy. It seems to have worked.
 

Mark Toye-Nexus

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Jul 18, 2001
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H, with all due respect mate, that's a well-worn mantra that certainly sounds reasonable but it never seems to possesss sufficient traction.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to witness a rebirth of woodland tournaments but history/nature would have us believe that evolution seldom works backwards no matter how much we'd all want it, mate.
I'm not suggesting that we'll get a rebirth of woodland tournaments at all, you misunderstand me. I was only advocating that what we are seeing is not a flash in the pan (as poll). It'll endure whilst someone wants to provide it I think. For sure it's not going to sustain the industry but we know that tournaments dont do that anyway do they.

It's fun, good humoured (by and large) and good value. Three things that, in my opinion, are missing from 5 man supair.

Providing an alternative for a not insignificant number of players is a great string to the calendars bow.
 

James ECI

UK Woodland Masters
Jul 31, 2007
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I'm not suggesting that we'll get a rebirth of woodland tournaments at all, you misunderstand me. I was only advocating that what we are seeing is not a flash in the pan (as poll). It'll endure whilst someone wants to provide it I think. For sure it's not going to sustain the industry but we know that tournaments dont do that anyway do they.

It's fun, good humoured (by and large) and good value. Three things that, in my opinion, are missing from 5 man supair.

Providing an alternative for a not insignificant number of players is a great string to the calendars bow.
This! We've already seen some wavering... it really is up to the PB community not to shoot itself in the foot going into 2020.

This means suppressing bullsh!t, pointing out positives and not jumping on the negativity bangwagon all the live long day - trust me it takes its toll!