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Belgium what a JOKE

Magued

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Jul 10, 2001
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I don't think most players pay money to market to new players. Sponsors might (and should) but attracting new players does nothing for the current players.

Players pay for good quality fields, reffing, air, pits, and the organization behind that. Their willingness to pay more for those things is probably helped by the presence of the trade show.

Yes, it's nice if the premiere paintball league presents paintball to sponsors, media and new players, but that ain't what the players are paying for, and if you think that's not the case, imagine how long the league would last if the events were held in very public locations, on pavement, with no refs. No teams are going to pay for that. But there are plenty of teams who will pay for well-run events with good reffing on grass in the middle of nowhere.
Why did you pick one of the three things I listed and ignored the other two to make a point that getting new players wont help the current players?
No it wont but it sure as hell will help the promotors getting more teams and making more money.
And the other 2 point I mentioned would help the current player.

And why is the option to play on pavement without reffs? I would say that they should use the turf and the reff they have now and Im sure that by getting the event in public places they would get more teams. And that mean more money for them. A parking lot in Ibiza in October wont be expensive. Hotels and car would be cheap, flight is cheap etc.
A good example is HB 2003 with 93 teams and HB 2004 200 teams. Im sure the 107 extra teams covered the promotors extra cost to have it on the beach..

Magued
 

Missy-Q

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Jul 31, 2007
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Why did you pick one of the three things I listed and ignored the other two to make a point that getting new players wont help the current players?

Because thats what he does every single time. We really should stop being so suprised.
Chicago thinks that its better to have a well run event in butt-fxck-nowhere than to have a well run event in Stadium City, simply because it would cost less. As it makes no difference where the event is to him, he can see no reason why anyone else would care either. Players could all say (as the people ultimately paying for it) that they would rather have the events in a great location, but if he was making the decision he would just ignore them and tell us he was right all along.
It's short-sighted, I know, but after demonstrating this unwaveringly stubborn mentality so often in the face of overwhelming opposition I am no longer suprised. In fact he's getting rather predictable...
 

Chicago

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Because thats what he does every single time. We really should stop being so suprised.
I respond to the things I disagree with and generally leave the things I agree with alone. And I don't agree that players pay to 'promote the sport'. They pay to have a good event.

Chicago thinks that its better to have a well run event in butt-fxck-nowhere than to have a well run event in Stadium City, simply because it would cost less.
Not quite. Chicago thinks that if it costs less to have the event in BFN than in Stadium City, you should have the event in BFN.

Now, keep in mind that when I say "costs less" I'm not talking about the entry fee. I'm talking about what the league can charge players and vendors vs. what it costs to be there. If the sponsors and players are willing to pay more fees to be in the city over bumblescrew, then by all means, have the event in the city. But I just don't see that as the case.

As it makes no difference where the event is to him, he can see no reason why anyone else would care either. Players could all say (as the people ultimately paying for it) that they would rather have the events in a great location, but if he was making the decision he would just ignore them and tell us he was right all along.
I think there is a big difference between what players SAY they want and what they are willing to actually haul their wallets out and pay for, and I think there is a big difference between the romantic idea of what having events in Stadium City does for the sport as compared to the reality of it.

Of course, there are some people who will pay just to be in Stadium City at the expense of all else, and some people who won't pay a cent to be anywhere other than BFN, but the majority of the players are in the middle. And the sponsors are in the same boat. When you get down to it, outside of I think Huntington Beach, nobody sees ANY benefit from being in Stadium City as opposed to BFN. You get exactly the same people there (paintball players), because...

NOBODY GOES TO PAINTBALL EVENTS WHO DOES NOT PLAY PAINTBALL, OR KNOW SOMEONE WHO PLAYS PAINTBALL!

It doesn't happen. Period. You can scream "not reaching the public" until you're blue in the face, but the public ain't looking anyway, unless they are LITERALLY walking right by the field (ala Huntington Beach).

There are really only two options. You can have an event in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by nobody going to the paintball tournament, or you can have it in the middle of a city, surrounded by lots of people who are not going to the tournament. The effect is the same - nobody going to the tournament.



If you have two leagues, one with great fields and reffing, in BFN, and the other with shoddy fields and reffing in Stadium City, I think the league in BFN would be more successful. If you have two leagues, both with great reffing and fields and organization, one in BFN for $2,000 and one in Stadium City for $2500, I still think the BFN league would be more successful. The only time I see the Stadium City league winning is if both leagues have shoddy reffing and organization and fields and charge nearly the same price.

And if you don't believe me, compare PSP attendance to NPPL attendance. NPPL charges a bit more and has more 'Stadium City' locations, and PSP charges a bit less and has more 'BFN' locations. The 'BFN' events still outsell the 'Stadium City' events. And even within each league, the BFN events don't do any worse than the Stadium City events.
 

Missy-Q

300lb of Chocolate Love
Jul 31, 2007
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NOBODY GOES TO PAINTBALL EVENTS WHO DOES NOT PLAY PAINTBALL, OR KNOW SOMEONE WHO PLAYS PAINTBALL!
.
This isn't true. Putting in in capital letters doesn't make it truer either. I know its not true because its not true in my own first hand experience.
 

Chicago

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Your first-hand experience must differ enormously from mine. I actually count. I almost never see anyone who does not play paintball or isn't there to see someone they know who plays, unless those people were within visual range of the event and on foot. That's where Huntington Beach works. World Cup works if there is some other athletic event going on in the sports complex.

Stadiums don't work. If you had an event in a stadium parking lot when there was an NFL or soccer game going on, then that would work. But otherwise, no.

And seriously, I count. I literally walk around and look for people who are not paintball people. 98% of the people I find who are not wearing paintball gear/t-shirts are there because of family/friends. And yes, I actually ask.

I suppose it's possible that Europeans are fundamentally different than Americans, but I'd be surprised.
 

Chicago

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Why did you pick one of the three things I listed and ignored the other two to make a point that getting new players wont help the current players?
No it wont but it sure as hell will help the promotors getting more teams and making more money.
And the other 2 point I mentioned would help the current player.
I went back and read your post and I don't really understand what the other two points are, although I think it's just a language barrier issue.

And why is the option to play on pavement without reffs? I would say that they should use the turf and the reff they have now and Im sure that by getting the event in public places they would get more teams. And that mean more money for them. A parking lot in Ibiza in October wont be expensive. Hotels and car would be cheap, flight is cheap etc.
A good example is HB 2003 with 93 teams and HB 2004 200 teams. Im sure the 107 extra teams covered the promotors extra cost to have it on the beach..
I think, in general, that it won't get you any more teams at all. I think it might (ala HB or World Cup) work for one event a year that is the league's 'showcase' event that everyone says "If I'm going to play ONE event this year, that's going to be the event I play!" But that doesn't work for the second event, as proved by PSP when they went back to Disney twice.
 

Missy-Q

300lb of Chocolate Love
Jul 31, 2007
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I didn't need to count the people I didn't feel fitted in.
I got the info directly from the girls on the information kiosk at the entrance to the stadium. The ones we were paying to gather the data for us, not to publish, just to gauge attendance.
And besides, you said:

NOBODY GOES TO PAINTBALL EVENTS WHO DOES NOT PLAY PAINTBALL, OR KNOW SOMEONE WHO PLAYS PAINTBALL!

and I still say you're wrong, and I know you are. :)
 

Chicago

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Is this where I say that you're stubborn and think you're always right and unwilling to listen to anyone else or something?

I think some sort of wager is in order. We should count, maybe each car that comes in, how many people are there who have not already played and are not there with someone else who has played or to see someone who is playing.

I bet it's less than 3% of the total traffic.

You can pick Cup or San Diego. Maybe two hours worth. I'm amenable to other methods of sampling.
 

Missy-Q

300lb of Chocolate Love
Jul 31, 2007
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Harlem, NY
what is it with you and 'counting', and if you have actually 'counted' people that were there not because they played paintball or knew someone that did, then why did you categorically say that these people don't exist?
 

Magued

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what is it with you and 'counting', and if you have actually 'counted' people that were there not because they played paintball or knew someone that did, then why did you categorically say that these people don't exist?
Lol.

Okey Chicago, you got your points thru. Now we where talking about the Millennium series and how we can make it better. So lets leave it there regarding your feeling about it, ok?

Magued