Sergei Leontiev : The Russian Legion Response

[Robbo]

I have just got off the phone from Sergei, Captain of the Russian Legion after having a long talk with him regarding what happened to his team in Portugal.
I thought it only fair he put his side of what happened since there seem to be way too many people posting who had no real idea what had really happened or why, or had even bothered to research anything.

Fact one, the Russian Legion had two of the guns identified as being able to fire, on occasion, more shots that trigger pulls.
Now this is not the same as full auto, full auto is when you pull the trigger in once and keep it there and the gun is firing all the time.
Since guns used in the Millennium are defined in operational terms as one trigger pull equals one shot, any deviation outside of this i.e. three trigger pulls equals four shots, this would then constitute a gun that needs to be confiscated and the player summarily banned from the whole tournament, this is a frikkin joke anyway but that’s another point and for another day.

OK, here is what Sergei explained;

‘The Russian Legion are not that technically minded, we had a modification done to the guns by a Finnish company that works much like the electronic eye in other guns.
A problem has since been identified in the operation of this modification that can, on occasion, cause there to be more shots than trigger pulls, in no way did our guns fire full auto.
We knew there was a slight potential problem but had up until that game no manifestations of this problem in our guns.
One of the guns was identified as faulty as we chronoed onto the field as showing this problem, and this was the first time anybody on our team had seen the problem occur in one of our guns.
The second gun, was taken and checked with a ball break in the breach and we think the paint caused the eye to malfunction again, once again, this problem did not even come up in the game we were playing, it was seen by the user of the gun for the first time as the judge tested it with the ball break in it.
Once the ball break had been cleared after the game, there was no more problem with the trigger pull.
But by then it was too late.
This problem we had was in the fifth game of the day, we knew from the very first game of the first day, as everybody else did, that all guns were being checked for full auto, it is crazy to think we would have risked being caught out with this problem after we train so hard to make our game good, it is just crazy.
Does anybody seriously think after we already know the judges on all the fields are checking for this problem that we would go out to play with guns that we knew were faulty ?
We may not be as technically minded as some teams but we are not stupid.

Looking back, we could have bought all new guns to get round the potential problem, the alternatives were to reconfigure all the circuitry which of course would have been impossible in the time or to carry on playing and since we had had no problems up until then we decided to do the latter. After all, buying 7 boards for the sake of a problem that might happen was going to be stupid.
We train very hard to play paintball as well as we can and as fair as we can and I would like to thank Peter for the opportunity given to the Russian Legion and myself to explain what happened in Portugal’

OK, that’s the deal, now some of those so quickly off the mark in accusing them of cheating can go away and chew over that lot.

And to Simon and Catcrap……………………Have that and poke it !!

Robbo

 

[Buddha 3]

Well, that seems to clear things up, at least in my mind.

Judging from the behavior of the Legion in the past, I personally take Sergei's word when he says these things. I do not for one minute believe that these guys would walk onto the field with markers of which they know that they are illegal. It all just seems so contradictory to their behavior on the field. A team that knowingly and willingly uses 'fixed' markers is also a team that wipes and is also a team that bitches and moans to the refs.
When Sergei says that the Russians are not the most technically minded in the world, I believe him. (After all, it's always the Migs that plummet out of the sky at an airshow)
Even their behavior after taking the penalty (having a number of players removed from the tourney, now THAT's gotta hurt) is examplary. They took the penalty on the chin, and played their hearts out.
I think it's sad that the good name of this team is being dragged through the mud, because of something that happened unintentionally.
Did the refs do the right thing? Yes. Those are the rules, like them or not.
Did the Legion cheat? Not in my book.

 

[NIALL]

In my opinion Russian Legion are probably the cleanest Pro team out there. They do not need to cheat, they are technically better than any other team. Qualifying for the semis with 5 players says it all really.

So would they knowingly go out with a tampered marker. I for one don't think so.

 

[Duncster]

I seriously doubt that a team who is predominantly famous for it's immaculate image would even entertain the idea of running with "mode-enabled" markers in an international event.

I think that this can basically be put down to bad luck!!

However, maybe they should all seriously think about acquiring 7 shiny new IR3's??

Dunc.

 

[canpap]

explanation

Gentlemen,

I think it is time to put a full stop to this subject by all means so I will be cutting off the personal stuff and only talk about the logic.

1- At the beginning of this thread, I was telling what was interesting in portugal and told people that RL was banned due to full auto and told that it was strange because they are good enough to beat their opponments without any kind of help... There were no comments made by me, just curiousity about what happened. Now RL getting penalized for full auto is a fact, whether they cheated or were naive about it is a subject that is out open for discussion.

Any mentally stable person can understand that I did not blame RL just told what happened and asked why...

2- It is after this thread let alone the personal bulls**t, that people started to pay attention to this subject and asked for questions, which lead Pete Robinson to speak to Sergei the captain of RL and return back to this thread with an explanation.

It was Pete Robinson's primary duty as a reporter to ask Sergei much before than all these posts... Not after I, a simple ordinary paintball player, sought after the subject. Do you truly believe that RL would replied if we did not have this debate?? Definitely NO.

Finally,

I stand my ground on what I have said before, they made a mistake and they paid for it and today, at last, we learned why and how they did this mistake.

If y'all care to look at my previous posts about this subject, you will understand that my intention is not to throw sh**t at RL, but to ask what the f**k was going on...

It is sad to see that a paintball player and a reporter(also US editor) for a major magazine to be that arrogant to dismiss what I write and totally manupulate...

A reporters duty is to reveal the truth not to call other people with stupid nicknames and insults.

A reporter is NOT a Judge nor someone who has more powers...

Let me tell everybody once again:

I am not the guy who would accept some f**king insult nor any other sh**t.

As long as anyone keep messing with me personally, so will I... Make no mistake!!!

I intentionally stated as "Pete Robinson" during this post because I am smart enough to know the difference between personal s**t and difference of opinions. Unfortunately, the well known reporter of the village can't. So, for the record, there is one ROBBOLLOCKS and nothing else for me....

Finally, I am not going to chew anything or poke it to anywhere, because I got what I want and I still stand my ground.

If anyone have a problem with this, then they can stick it up theirs...


CANPAP...

 

[manike]

I should have been a lawyer... This is gonna get long

Nothing less than expected. I'm glad Sergei has put his views and points across and I agree with them all, it makes complete sense. What you have done Pete is just confirmed the things that I had insinuated before and proved my point for me.

You have given evidence for mitigating circumstances and shown that they did not intend to cheat, but that they did indeed cheat. There is a difference but both actions still result in cheating. Ignorance is not a viable excuse. Now the moral issue of whether they intended to cheat or not is a different issue and I am very happy to believe they did not intend to cheat or that they did not realise they were cheating but none the less they did.

I think the arguement we are having stems from, what you were so happy to point out before, that you are ignorant of your marker. What also comes across is that you are ignorant of the terms and their definitions that you are using.

Just to clear up a few things that you are obviously not aware of Pete or are ignoring. Full Auto does not just mean that you hold the trigger in and the gun keeps firing for ever. Maybe this is the biggest point of ignorance here, and maybe it will take the technical people, like me, who know what they are talking about to drum it into those that are ignorant and only think they know what they are talking about, like you.

As I am involved in the use and design of paintball systems this IS something I have researched in depth back when the issue of turbo etc. was going on. I researched it on the net, spoke to the head of the West Midlands Police firing range, and even spoke to a lawyer about it. I'll try and make it as simple to follow for you as possible

The definition of Semi-auto is one single shot per action of the trigger. 1 and no more than 1.

The definition of Full Auto is where the trigger is depressed and 'continues to fire' (more than a single shot). The 'continues to fire' bit is what gets us. A gun which fires two shots (or a double tap) for a single pull is continueing to fire past the single shot of what would be semi-auto. such modes as this are considered 'burst fire'. All burst fires are in the legal eyes considered Full Auto... If a gun fires anymore than one shot per pull, even if it is 1.1 shots per pull, then I was advised that it is a 'burst fire' weapon. And thus a Fully automatic weapon.

IS THAT CLEAR?

It's the reason for the banning of all 'turbo' modes as they fall under FA for the same reason.

Now you may not agree with this or argue against it, but you will be argueing in a court of law with the government and will be in the wrong. I've had a lawyer look into it. Therefore what you said before was just down right wrong. I don't want us to have to take this to a court of law to prove it any other way as we do not want paintball looked at that way. The Russian Legion were using Fully Auto weapons by nature of the fact that "Russian Legion had two of the guns identified as being able to fire, on occasion, more shots that trigger pulls" So wether you know or agree with the definition of FA is irrelevant you have just shown that they were using FA. They may have not been using the common misconception of what FA is but again ignorance is not an excuse. Use the media you have at your disposal to inform the ignorant masses of what FA is. That's what I am doing here.

These rules as defined in the Millennium are NOT a friggin joke and I'm quite disgusted you think that. The very reason I am argueing this sorry issue is so that ignorance like this doesn't jeopardise our sport. Now the moral issues of rules about whether you are hit or not are different, but these rules are about ensuring our sport still exists. This isn't about the competition. It's about the legal definition of what is and is not a fire arm. It's not friggen worth pushing if it might ultimately end up with our sport in the dock of a court. It's a joke that people think having this happen shouldn't be highlighted. Instead of mouthing off about how this isn't cheating you should be working to save the sport and making sure people do not in any way risk it happening to their equipment for ANY reason.

You accused me of not going after the real cheats. I am going after the people that jeopardise the sport. I've researched this and I think someone in your position should also be trying to ensure people don't risk the legal position of our game.

Originally posted by Robbo
A problem has since been identified in the operation of this modification that can, on occasion, cause there to be more shots than trigger pulls

This proves the guns were Full Auto, your ignorance of what constitutes FA is not an excuse.

Originally posted by Robbo
We knew there was a slight potential problem but had up until that game no manifestations of this problem in our guns.

This shows that they were aware of the situation. If you knew there was apotential problem that your gun would go hot would you use it?

Originally posted by Robbo
Looking back, we could have bought all new guns to get round the potential problem, the alternatives were to reconfigure all the circuitry which of course would have been impossible in the time or to carry on playing and since we had had no problems up until then we decided to do the latter. After all, buying 7 boards for the sake of a problem that might happen was going to be stupid.

This shows that they know what they should have done. If you knew your gun might go hot due to a dodgy part wouldn't you buy a replacement part and install it? It seems like people are not taking this rule seriously because they do not see the real reason behind it. Maybe they will now.

They should not have been on the field with markers which were 'capable of FA' during normal game use which these markers were. If they were running with mods on the guns that made them prone to FA when paint broke then I'm sorry and I can see their innocence but they shouldn't have been using them. They knew they had guns that were capable of FA because they knew this was possible with the mods they had made. Therefore they stepped onto the field of play with guns they knew to be capable of FA. Case closed.

Originally posted by Sergei
The second gun, was taken and checked with a ball break in the breach and we think the paint caused the eye to malfunction again, once again, this problem did not even come up in the game we were playing, it was seen by the user of the gun for the first time as the judge tested it with the ball break in it.

So the problem only manifested itself when a ball broke just as the marshall was checking it? That leads me onto a whole host of other questions.

Niall, from Sergei's own words they had markers with modifications on them which they knew potentially had problems. Therefore they knowingly went onto the field with them.

Do we normally take gun malfunctions as an acceptable excuse? If my gun goes hot and it's shooting 380 is that ok 'because it malfunctioned'?

Maybe 'cheat' is too strong a word here. It's a horrible word, but I do think if they know this problem potentially existed then they shouldn't have used the markers. Which is the whole point I was making before and which your post just proved. I'm sorry the discussion got to this level, but I think it's good if it makes people think twice about their markers and whats going on with them.

I am not dragging their name through the mud. I still think they are the best team we have on this side of the pond. But I am using this example to show people what is right and wrong.

Sergei contradicts himself when he says

Originally posted by Sergei
We knew there was a slight potential problem but had up until that game no manifestations of this problem in our guns.

Originally posted by Sergei
Does anybody seriously think after we already know the judges on all the fields are checking for this problem that we would go out to play with guns that we knew were faulty ?

If they knew there was a potential problem then they did play with guns they knew to be faulty. It's not a 'slight' problem if a gun goes FA as can be seen by the rules and the fact that any guilty player is banned from an event. I'd say that is a potentially MAJOR problem.

I'm bored with argueing this. Lets suck it up, learn from it and move on.

manike

 

[Robbo]

explanation

Originally posted by canpap
Gentlemen,
I think it is time to put a full stop to this subject by all means so I will be cutting off the personal stuff and only talk about the logic.
1- At the beginning of this thread, I was telling what was interesting in portugal and told people that RL was banned due to full auto and told that it was strange because they are good enough to beat their opponments without any kind of help... There were no comments made by me, just curiousity about what happened. Now RL getting penalized for full auto is a fact, whether they cheated or were naive about it is a subject that is out open for discussion.
Any mentally stable person can understand that I did not blame RL just told what happened and asked why...
2- It is after this thread let alone the personal bulls**t, that people started to pay attention to this subject and asked for questions, which lead Pete Robinson to speak to Sergei the captain of RL and return back to this thread with an explanation.
It was Pete Robinson's primary duty as a reporter to ask Sergei much before than all these posts... Not after I, a simple ordinary paintball player, sought after the subject. Do you truly believe that RL would replied if we did not have this debate?? Definitely NO.
Finally,
I stand my ground on what I have said before, they made a mistake and they paid for it and today, at last, we learned why and how they did this mistake.
If y'all care to look at my previous posts about this subject, you will understand that my intention is not to throw sh**t at RL, but to ask what the f**k was going on...
It is sad to see that a paintball player and a reporter(also US editor) for a major magazine to be that arrogant to dismiss what I write and totally manupulate...
A reporters duty is to reveal the truth not to call other people with stupid nicknames and insults.
A reporter is NOT a Judge nor someone who has more powers...
Let me tell everybody once again:
I am not the guy who would accept some f**king insult nor any other sh**t.
As long as anyone keep messing with me personally, so will I... Make no mistake!!!
I intentionally stated as "Pete Robinson" during this post because I am smart enough to know the difference between personal s**t and difference of opinions. Unfortunately, the well known reporter of the village can't. So, for the record, there is one ROBBOLLOCKS and nothing else for me....
Finally, I am not going to chew anything or poke it to anywhere, because I got what I want and I still stand my ground.
If anyone have a problem with this, then they can stick it up theirs...
CANPAP...

Yawn

 

[Robbo]

I should have been a lawyer... This is gonna get long

Originally posted by manike
Nothing less than expected. I'm glad Sergei has put his views and points across and I agree with them all, it makes complete sense. What you have done Pete is just confirmed the things that I had insinuated before and proved my point for me.

You have given evidence for mitigating circumstances and shown that they did not intend to cheat, but that they did indeed cheat. There is a difference but both actions still result in cheating. Ignorance is not a viable excuse. Now the moral issue of whether they intended to cheat or not is a different issue and I am very happy to believe they did not intend to cheat or that they did not realise they were cheating but none the less they did.

I think the arguement we are having stems from, what you were so happy to point out before, that you are ignorant of your marker. What also comes across is that you are ignorant of the terms and their definitions that you are using.

Just to clear up a few things that you are obviously not aware of Pete or are ignoring. Full Auto does not just mean that you hold the trigger in and the gun keeps firing for ever. Maybe this is the biggest point of ignorance here, and maybe it will take the technical people, like me, who know what they are talking about to drum it into those that are ignorant and only think they know what they are talking about, like you.

As I am involved in the use and design of paintball systems this IS something I have researched in depth back when the issue of turbo etc. was going on. I researched it on the net, spoke to the head of the West Midlands Police firing range, and even spoke to a lawyer about it. I'll try and make it as simple to follow for you as possible

The definition of Semi-auto is one single shot per action of the trigger. 1 and no more than 1.

The definition of Full Auto is where the trigger is depressed and 'continues to fire' (more than a single shot). The 'continues to fire' bit is what gets us. A gun which fires two shots (or a double tap) for a single pull is continueing to fire past the single shot of what would be semi-auto. such modes as this are considered 'burst fire'. All burst fires are in the legal eyes considered Full Auto... If a gun fires anymore than one shot per pull, even if it is 1.1 shots per pull, then I was advised that it is a 'burst fire' weapon. And thus a Fully automatic weapon.

IS THAT CLEAR?

It's the reason for the banning of all 'turbo' modes as they fall under FA for the same reason.

Now you may not agree with this or argue against it, but you will be argueing in a court of law with the government and will be in the wrong. I've had a lawyer look into it. Therefore what you said before was just down right wrong. I don't want us to have to take this to a court of law to prove it any other way as we do not want paintball looked at that way. The Russian Legion were using Fully Auto weapons by nature of the fact that "Russian Legion had two of the guns identified as being able to fire, on occasion, more shots that trigger pulls" So wether you know or agree with the definition of FA is irrelevant you have just shown that they were using FA. They may have not been using the common misconception of what FA is but again ignorance is not an excuse. Use the media you have at your disposal to inform the ignorant masses of what FA is. That's what I am doing here.

These rules as defined in the Millennium are NOT a friggin joke and I'm quite disgusted you think that. The very reason I am argueing this sorry issue is so that ignorance like this doesn't jeopardise our sport. Now the moral issues of rules about whether you are hit or not are different, but these rules are about ensuring our sport still exists. This isn't about the competition. It's about the legal definition of what is and is not a fire arm. It's not friggen worth pushing if it might ultimately end up with our sport in the dock of a court. It's a joke that people think having this happen shouldn't be highlighted. Instead of mouthing off about how this isn't cheating you should be working to save the sport and making sure people do not in any way risk it happening to their equipment for ANY reason.

You accused me of not going after the real cheats. I am going after the people that jeopardise the sport. I've researched this and I think someone in your position should also be trying to ensure people don't risk the legal position of our game.



This proves the guns were Full Auto, your ignorance of what constitutes FA is not an excuse.



This shows that they were aware of the situation. If you knew there was apotential problem that your gun would go hot would you use it?



This shows that they know what they should have done. If you knew your gun might go hot due to a dodgy part wouldn't you buy a replacement part and install it? It seems like people are not taking this rule seriously because they do not see the real reason behind it. Maybe they will now.

They should not have been on the field with markers which were 'capable of FA' during normal game use which these markers were. If they were running with mods on the guns that made them prone to FA when paint broke then I'm sorry and I can see their innocence but they shouldn't have been using them. They knew they had guns that were capable of FA because they knew this was possible with the mods they had made. Therefore they stepped onto the field of play with guns they knew to be capable of FA. Case closed.



So the problem only manifested itself when a ball broke just as the marshall was checking it? That leads me onto a whole host of other questions.

Niall, from Sergei's own words they had markers with modifications on them which they knew potentially had problems. Therefore they knowingly went onto the field with them.

Do we normally take gun malfunctions as an acceptable excuse? If my gun goes hot and it's shooting 380 is that ok 'because it malfunctioned'?

Maybe 'cheat' is too strong a word here. It's a horrible word, but I do think if they know this problem potentially existed then they shouldn't have used the markers. Which is the whole point I was making before and which your post just proved. I'm sorry the discussion got to this level, but I think it's good if it makes people think twice about their markers and whats going on with them.
I am not dragging their name through the mud. I still think they are the best team we have on this side of the pond. But I am using this example to show people what is right and wrong.
Sergei contradicts himself when he says
If they knew there was a potential problem then they did play with guns they knew to be faulty. It's not a 'slight' problem if a gun goes FA as can be seen by the rules and the fact that any guilty player is banned from an event. I'd say that is a potentially MAJOR problem.
I'm bored with argueing this. Lets suck it up, learn from it and move on.
manike

Yawn

 

[manike]

Re: I should have been a lawyer... This is gonna get long

Originally posted by Robbo
Yawn

Real responsible and mature addition to the thread there Pete. It dissapoints me from someone who IS a professional journalist and supposed to be in a position of responsibility.

I've always found that when argueing with kids or idiots your case is proved when they start with personal insults or could no longer come up with valid posts and just had to post crap.

manike

 

[canpap]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Robbo
Yawn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





who gives a s**t anyway??