DMW--good or bad for the game?

[shwoomie]

why are people complainin about DMW?
true it is ****ty to be on the receiving end but anything that hasnt got its marker or hand above its head is live prey and worth shooting at unless it has black&white stripes!

it is all in the rules...if people just lift their marker or hand in the air so that it can be seen CLEARLY! they wont get bonus balled so much...

there will always be reflex shots to the ones that just stand up from their bunker and start walking to the dead box...and they will receive it even more if they havent got their hand or marker in the air!!

"look at the arm band!" seriously how many of you can say that they have looked if the person walking has an armband or not?

i can guess that not alot!


so inconclusion put one or two balls in the guy who is walking to get his arm up...not more since its not nice and it will result to even more hassle and bitchin!

 

[woz]

How to end an argument

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Wiping/Playing on = Cheating.

DMW = Not cheating.

Ergo, DMW = fine an' dandy.

There you go...

We all know, playing on & wiping are comman place in the game of paintball, we accept it & as TJ rightly pointed out its cheating, DMW is not.
So either your super squeky clean walking every single time or ya do what everyone else does, play to the limits of the game to try & WIN.


Woz

 

[Baca Loco]

Re: Why not just......

Originally posted by woz
Baca a win is a win, and if you ask jimmy he got a lot more respect than disrespect after pulling that move.

That's because most Euroballers are fags.

As to the point Shwoomie brought up, the result has been just as Takedown said, when in doubt, light 'em up, and there lots of teams now that don't even bother to waste time checking whether or not a player leaving the field is clearly marked--they just hose him down some more so it's not even a question.

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Woz

You missed the real reason why DMW's are ok (TJ didnt tho')

DMW's are legal - you absolutely cannot legislate against a player walking around the feild - who is to say how a player moves around the field of play?

As long as he doesnt signal that he is eliminated then all is 'fine and dandy'

The key is to NEVER be caught out - keep your gun on the guys leaving the feild if you are mopping up - and ask them to raise their hand over their head - if they dont - give them a TINY amount of that extra love we all hate!!! Dont rip em a new spine - just a couple to remind them what they have to do when they are eliminated.

Mark

 

[Mark]

DMW are fine, I have been caught by them and I have pulled them. This extra love that is given to players (and being reccomended by several people) is the problem...it is rather strange that a player can reach the 50 in a few seconds but takes 30+ seconds to leave the field when hit with NO visual sign that they are eliminated other than the removal of their armband (if armbands are being used....Skyball) This is the part of the game that needs looking at, as the arguements that are caused (as a diversion in a great many cases) are not worth the hassle from a players and judges point of view...marker in the air, your out..hand in the air, your out, neither being done then all calls of overshooting, bonus balling, extra love are null and void. To take this back to a DMW then if you aren't signalling you are eliminated then you will get hit ...ok it may be from several different directions but until you signal as mentioned above you don't have any cause to complain. If the player is signaling they are out, then YOU run the risk of a 1-4-1, which is fair as they have complied with the rules...you haven't. All it needs now is for it to be inserted into the rule book that you must signal and CONTINUE to signal you that are eliminated until you have left the field of play and are in the dead-box.

 

[Justin Owen]

I agree with what Nick has said.

And for the record, I hate the DMW.

But aside from my personal views on it, I think its existence does more harm than good...specifically revolving around the safety issue. For example, in Pittsburgh one year my team got nailed by a DMW (I'll discuss it more in a minute). The following Chicago, our team went further into our discussion on how to avoid falling victim to this and ended up pasting player after player from the opposing team that was walking off the field dead (for real). We didn't mean to be malicious, but that's what it was...however we were not being protected by the rules, nor were the dead players, so what were we to do?

Interestingly, the DMW that brought this all about for us was one in which the player who pulled it on us had his armband either in his hand or around his wrist/hand when he pulled it. It was clearly illegal, but the refs didn't know how to react to it.

The problem with the DMW is that it takes advantage of a player's good-nature to avoid doing harm to a player who is already eliminated. It takes advantage of a player's desire to avoid inflicting unnecessary pain and suffering upon a fellow player. I don't like it and I think it goes against the essence of the game. If your team goes down 1 on 4, tough ****...pull it off straight up or you don't deserve it. But the DMW is, in my opinion, cowardly...and in any case should be illegal.

That being said, I once again agree with what Nick said...make a standard rule "hand on your head or appearance thereof" for eliminated players. If you're eliminated and you don't have your hand on your head, it's your ass. If you don't shoot a player who doesn't have his hand on his head, it's your ass. In any case, it's a clear and unambiguous way to make known who should be eliminated and who might not really be.

Lotsa love,
~J~

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Well, having inadvertantly started a whole new thread, I guess I should make my (probably insignificant) feelings on the DMW known.

I've pulled them, and had them pulled on me, so I have both sides first hand, just incase anyone thinks this is a biased, one-sided view

(when I refer to rules below, I mean the current millennium rules)
There is nothing in the rules to state that a player must use one of the provided big inflatable objects as a bunker.

What a player should do when eliminated is not a particularly well thought out idea - surrender arm band to a judge, then leave the field - I agree with the "hand on head or you get lit up" idea.

However, back to the bunker thing - if a player decides he/she wishes not to use an inflatable object, and instead hide behind their marker, or some body language, then so be it - that's their choice, and have managed to keep themselves in the game using cunning, and being a little bit sneaky.
After all, isn't cunning and sneakyness a part of the game?


I say if a player has the combination of balls, skill, luck, and an opposition that has fallen asleep, then fair play to him - go for it.

 

[Gyroscope]

Woz

Originally posted by Mark Toye-Nexus
DMW's are legal - you absolutely cannot legislate against a player walking around the feild - who is to say how a player moves around the field of play?

Exactly what I was trying to say.

Nick- the notion of requiring players to have their hands on their heads is sound. On these forums in discussions of bonus balling, we talked about appropriate penalties given teams that shoot players who are indicating thast they are eliminated.

This could fix the bonus balling thing and make DMWs such an unattractive proposition that it would be increasingly rare, without making a rule that says, "don't be cheeky- hide behind a bunker like a good boy or girl." Flash was right here. Making rules against DMWs are the tricky bit of articulation that I was saying this board's participants would probably attempt. No need, though. If a DMW results in getting shot anyhow, it will be seldom seen. If a player with hand on head is protected by the rules, they will not be shot as often, either.

I bonus ball players often. It is not malicious, it is insurance. A player who has hits I can see doesn't get extra love, though. If a player is casually heading back to the dead box, I put a ball or (at most) two on their back or preferably their pack. If they are hustling, or have their hand raised, or a referee is taking away their band, I am content to watch them leave without shooting them. Maybe I could be more careful, or use more scupulous discretion. If I had to, I suppose I would.

 

[Justin Owen]

This is true, and is well-represented by the fact that an attempt was made in the NPPL several years ago to do away with the dead man's walk but the problem soon became apparent: HOW DO YOU WORD THE RULE TO DISALLOW THEM?

At the time, games were played in the woods and "tree walking" was a tactic used by many savvy players of the day. All the rules they could come up with to outlaw the DMW effectively outlawed any and all player locomotion that was anything less than a full-fledged run.

So, understanding of the problem is not alien to folks such as myself...but my dislike of the "technique" remains, regardless.

There is no question that the act of a DMW takes advantage of the goodwill shown to eliminated players by the opposition. That's why it works, plain and simple. And when a team gets burned by it that's why the eliminated players then suffer the recourse later on.

I think it's crap. I think it's cowardly. I think it does not reflect the essence of the game. But as always, that's merely my humble opinion.

The "hand on the head" rule is the way to go...and some leagues, mostly some of the lesser known regional ones, are beginning to understand the safety dilemna and put into effect rules such as this. In fact, one league in particular has made it such that eliminated players are REQUIRED to signal their elimination by placing a hand on the head or they are, under the rules, "playing on" and issued a 1-4-1. I LOVE THIS RULE...and I would love to see some of the big leagues adopt it as well.

Lotsa love to all,
~J~

 

[Collier]

Ref hand on head, we had this rule at the last tourny we played. the last player from the other team had his hand 'just above' his head and lit one of our players up, unfortunatley for him the player he hit had already walked out the tape so it was a waste, and he did get plenty of 'love' for his efforts .

Paul