Philly Americans out of the NPPL

[Robbo]

Missy / Chicago, I don't think the Millennium locked league is gonna disappear in 09 (I wished it would mind you and have been advocating they do it for over a year now) but I know their open event for 09 will obviously be unlocked which is obviously a step in the right direction .....if they go down to 10 balls a second then this most definitely will help everybody ...well, maybe the paint companies might disagree but hey, I ain't gonna lose too much sleep over it.
As Chris suggests, I wish all tournies followed the lead taken by the Millennium.

 

[Chicago]

Missy / Chicago, I don't think the Millennium locked league is gonna disappear in 09 (I wished it would mind you and have been advocating they do it for over a year now) but I know their open event for 09 will obviously be unlocked which is obviously a step in the right direction .....if they go down to 10 balls a second then this most definitely will help everybody ...well, maybe the paint companies might disagree but hey, I ain't gonna lose too much sleep over it.
As Chris suggests, I wish all tournies followed the lead taken by the Millennium.

What would be interesting is if they marketed the Open event as the one event for the US pro teams to go to, BUT still enforced the roster restrictions. I.e., if you've guested on a Pro team during the season, that's the only Pro team you can play on at the Open event.

Probably a bad idea in terms of attendance, but I like the 'fairness' of it.

 

[MissyQ]

Because paintball isn't fishing or golf or other mainline sports.

While $200 is part of it, I should have said '$200 and airfare, hotel and lodging' isn't entry level - unless you think one event a year is where people start. Players just plain do not go from no tournament paintball to D3 national paintball. I can't believe it's even a matter of discussion. Entry level to NATIONAL paintball? Sure. Entry level to tournament paintball? No way. It just doesn't work like that, and short of everyone else no longer running tournaments, the fields/local leagues will always have first crack at entry-level play. The $200 is also relative - it's not entry level because local events cost less. It's a bit like saying a $10,000 television is 'entry level' because entry level cars are $12,000.


As for event profits, I meant 'this season', thought that was a given. HB and the other events are all down significantly in attendance and industry sponsorship contribution, especially as compared to when you were involved with the league. On the PSP side, some of the events definitely make more than others, but they should all be profitable. (Of course, they could all be not profitable depending how you determine profitable - if you're just taking entry fees minus event costs, then they're all not profitable. I'm factoring in other revenue and other expenses over the 5 events.)

MS is right on with the 10 bps. I'm hoping PSP will cut rate of fire as well.

Gotcha,
so.....

When you said the NPPL loses money on every event, you meant the 3 events this year only...

When you said 'entry level', you meant entry tournament level, not entry national event level (which is, I think, the page that everyone else was on).

When you said 'Nothing that costs $200+ per person in entry fees is 'entry level', you meant non-mainline sports only...

Now, I've grown to like and respect you Chris, as I hope you know, but do you see where I'm coming from with this? The same sweeping inaccurate generalisations that used to drive me crazy, are still driving me crazy, because to ignore them is to allow people to accept them as truth.

 

[MissyQ]

What would be interesting is if they marketed the Open event as the one event for the US pro teams to go to, BUT still enforced the roster restrictions. I.e., if you've guested on a Pro team during the season, that's the only Pro team you can play on at the Open event.

Probably a bad idea in terms of attendance, but I like the 'fairness' of it.

I agree, and I think thats what they are shooting for.

 

[Chicago]

When you said the NPPL loses money on every event, you meant the 3 events this year only...

I was talking about this year - that would seem to be the most relevant. But if you want to go for accuracy, you can extend that back to Tampa last year, and any event in the foreseeable future absent DRASTIC change that may or may not be successful.

When you said 'entry level', you meant entry tournament level, not entry national event level (which is, I think, the page that everyone else was on).

Given that it was in reference to dumping XPSL being a bad idea, I thought it was pretty clear that we were talking about tournament paintball.

When you said 'Nothing that costs $200+ per person in entry fees is 'entry level', you meant non-mainline sports only...

Oh no, I meant everything.

Now, I've grown to like and respect you Chris, as I hope you know, but do you see where I'm coming from with this? The same sweeping inaccurate generalisations that used to drive me crazy, are still driving me crazy, because to ignore them is to allow people to accept them as truth.

Generalizations are just that. While there MAY be some sports out there where $200 entry is entry level, they would be, by far, the exception. Sports where $200/event is NOT entry level:

Baseball
Soccer
Basketball
Swimming

or pretty much ANY other sport with scholastic competition. But even traveling soccer isn't $200/person.

I know from experience that entry-level competitive skiing, for example, is free or close to it (with the price of a lift ticket).

You picked golf and fishing - I'm not conceding that this is the case, but I don't know enough about golf or fishing to know for sure. I suspect that there are plenty of golf and fishing tournaments out there that are NOT $200 in entry, and I suspect that most people playing their first tournaments don't pay that much (also, re: golf, that $200 also includes green fees that may, by themselves, be $100+).

Golf and fishing are also *INDIVIDUAL* sports, which are different for another reason: You don't need to be on a team to play. You can go fish and golf on your own. It's pretty hard to play paintball without a team to play against, which pushes the entry-level down. People will pay to play a team-sport tournament just so they can have organized competition; in individual sports, there's not as much reason to pay for a competition unless you're wanting to compete for prizes, which pushes the entry-level cost up.


Regardless, like most sports, $200/person isn't entry level for paintball tournaments.

 

[Chicago]

OK, write the date down...

Baca is right, NPPL is competing with XPSL. I forgot that NPPL now offers 5-man. Given the choice between playing 5-man at NPPL for essentially the same price as 7-man at XPSL, and the stark difference in event quality between the two, I don't see why anyone would pick XPSL over D4 NPPL 5-man.