Portugal let's here your views !!!!

[manike]

Fisu in your opinion would a player shooting one of those guns know they were getting more than one shot for an intentional trigger pull?

It is every players duty to make sure their guns are maintained to stay within the rules. If a worn component makes then out of the rules then it is the players duty to get it fixed.

Just as with a regulator seal being worn would make a gun be hot and thus should be fixed. If a microswitch was worn and causing multiple shots it should be fixed.

manike

 

[Fisu]

They were aware of the problem. I saw them lowering the mrof on pregame chrono but apparently it didn't help enough. Marshall tested the gun after the game (field 1) and it looked to me that it was ok so it must have been(?) some other field where they got banned.

Fisu / Cyclone

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Fisu
They were aware of the problem. I saw them lowering the mrof on pregame chrono but apparently it didn't help enough. Marshall tested the gun after the game (field 1) and it looked to me that it was ok so it must have been(?) some other field where they got banned.

Fisu / Cyclone

Thanks a lot for your information Fisu. I think that helps clear up a lot of uncertainty.

manike

 

[Robbo]

My Last Word on This !!!

I will try and keep my 'Placid' hat on here in answering some of this **** that has been written.
Baca, if we can't put people on a pedestal, after they have displayed time and again, they do not embrace the same predisposition to cheat like f##k as almost all the other pros do, then it has come to a sorry state.
I am not doing them any disservice, they are proud as much as I am heartened by their play, to ignore it in favour of what you would see as expediency, would be a crime indeed.
What would you have me do Baca, put some of your well known countrymen on a pedestal and then watch them cheat like **** as they go and play their games as we all have many times before?
Nah, that ain't gonna happen mate.

Now how many of the guys in this thread have talked to Sergei at length ?
Hmmm, not many if any !!!!!!

Most I would think, although not all, have seen them play on occasion, but how many are, what could be described as, well informed?
I doubt even one.

So, ignorance is alive and well and flourishing in this area, what we have is a situation where speculation, exaggeration and downright misinterpretation are rife.

What has been established by Fisu, is that there is a technical aberration that on occasion could predispose the gun to firing more than one shot per trigger pull (but certainly not all the time) if that gun is finely tuned.
That is 100% true !!!
But to cut thru all this crap, we need to assure ourselves of the following, did the RL design their guns to run full auto ?
I think we must all agree this is definitely not the case.

Did they knowingly play with them, when they knew them to be faulty and likely to shoot more shots than trigger pulls ?
The likes of Manike an Catcrap would have us believe there is no alternative other than to believe they did know.
Now who the hell are these guys to question the RL on the facts presented ?
As has already been mentioned, nobody could know for sure and yet Manike and Catcrap have already found them guilty.

Now, if we erroneously assume that just because they are proficient players, it naturally makes them proficient technicians and therefore they must have known their gun was liable to full auto, then I could ask, that somebody so technically able as Simon (Manike), then why isn't he on a pro team.
I mean, isn't that the same rationale !!!
It doesn't always follow that just because you are good in one area then you must be good in another.
I know **** about my gun, I just wanna pick it up, point it, and shoot Yanks, that's all I am interested in.
Some guys who are, shall we say, less able on the field, have to create a niche for themselves to gain some form of recognised expertise in this sport of ours, and good luck to them.
The point here is, I am giving the RL the benefit of the doubt, I am not automatically assuming they 'must' have known and therefore, in my opinion, they did not cheat in any way.
What enables me to make that decision, is the very point I made earlier, I have had extensive talks with Sergei, the others have not, I know what he and this team are about, the others in this thread have merely 'watched' them.
Some people love to knock others down, we have seen evidence of this many times before on this board, this in my opinion, is that phenomena just reappearing.
And Si, I'm afraid, your statements regarding your belief in the Russians being fair players and at the same time knowing their guns were liable to run full auto, are mutually exclusive.
You cannot maintain both standpoints at the same time, it is impossible and ludicrous and an offence to common sense.
Either you believe they are fair players and therefore did not knowingly bend the rules or you believe they cheated and thus are not fair players, stop fart-arsing about and say what you believe !!!!!
Anyway, I'm done on this thread and said all I have to, I know there will be a myriad of rebuttals, none of which are designed to further the cause of truth but are more inclined to further the cause of those who wrote them.
People who read these posts will make their minds up as they see fit, I just hate to see ill-informed posts and bias take up so much room on this board but Hey, WTF do I know !!!!
I will continue to extol the virtues of the Russian Legion because I believe they are the cleanest team we have to look up to.
Hang me for that and you hang any chance we have in paintball for hope of a cleaner game !!!!!!!
Robbo

 

[manike]

My Last Word on This !!!

Originally posted by Robbo
What has been established by Fisu, is that there is a technical aberration that on occasion could predispose the gun to firing more than one shot per trigger pull (but certainly not all the time) if that gun is finely tuned.
That is 100% true !!!

Yes and also from what Fisu says here...

Originally posted by Fisu
They were aware of the problem. I saw them lowering the mrof on pregame chrono but apparently it didn't help enough.

They knew it was happening. They have a responsibilty to stop it happening before playing the game.

Do you as someone who does not care about their gun not know when you are getting more than one shot each time you pull the trigger? I'm stunned if you don't.

Any basic newbie has no understanding can pick up a gun like this and know they are not pulling the trigger for each shot they get. To insinuate anything else is insulting ours and the Russian Legion players intelligence. We know they are not stupid players.

I have never insinuated that because they are good players they should be good technicians and to make a shot at why that doesn't make me a pro player is a low blow (but I like it I'll take it as a complement )

What I have insinuated is that any player knows when they are getting one shot per pull or not. If you are saying they don't then I think you are insulting their intelligence.

Originally posted by Robbo
But to cut thru all this crap, we need to assure ourselves of the following, did the RL design their guns to run full auto ?
I think we must all agree this is definitely not the case.

That Pete is absolutely irrelevant. I do not know if they designed the guns to do it or if it became about via wear. We can not agree on something you and I simply do not know. I am very happy to believe that they did not design the markers to do this. But it's irrelevant.

What is relevant is that they knew it was happening and stepped onto the field to play like that. I think we have enough evidence here to know that now don't we? That's why I think they are guilty. Not perhaps of engineering the markers to do this, but for stepping onto the field and using them when they knew they were doing this.

To me that is no different than a player with a gun checking it over a chrono and finding it hot then stepping onto the field to use it.

Under your rational that is not cheating! Under mine it bloody well is.

You have a responsibility to keep your equipment within the rules. I appreciate it can happen by accident when playing in one game and if you don't know it then fine it's accidental. After that game you should fix it. If it happens by accident and you know it and you don't do anything about it and then step onto the field with it in that condition then it is cheating in my opinion.

Pete answer me one question. Would you know if your gun was firing one ball per trigger pull?

Pete I think you got confused by what I said in my beliefs. I meant I think the players play a clean game in that they do not wipe or lose hits and that they walk as soon as they know they are hit. However here I also believe they knew the state of their equipment and continued to use it.

I am most definitely not out to 'knock' anyone or put people down. I'm actually completely the opposite in my approach to paintball. That's why I do articles for Warpig. I do them to promote European Paintball on what is Paintballs biggest website. I do them because I care about this sport and want to see it grow and develop. I do not get paid for my Articles on warpig. I don't even get expenses. It costs me a significant amount to be able to write them which comes straight out of my own pockets. I do it purely because I love this sport. And I do it because I don't have time due to work commitments to be part of a team... Maybe that is also why I'm not a pro player also

The bottom line Pete, is that they were aware of the problem and that they continued to use the markers. Under those circumstances I would be interested for you to explain to me how it isn't cheating?

manike

 

[TJ Lambini]

Interesting areas we're in....firing hot/auto is cheating, period, whether there is intent there or not, cos the player involved is breaking the rules.

Morally, the designer cheat may be despicable and the accidental may - MAY - on ocassion be excusable, but the end result of both could be excatly the same: someone getting knocked cold, or losing an eye.

From my viewpoint it looks like the Russkies were pushing the envelope - like all pro teams do - and they slipped over the line and got punished for it. End of.

Did they cheat? Yep.

Does that make them cheats? Nope.

Try that one on for size Zeno...

peace

 

[manike]

TJ I think that is the best post I have ever seen you make

It's a summary of what I have been trying to say but then I was never good at short posts!

manike

 

[canpap]

final

TJ well done!!! you have been smartest amogst all of us...

Did they cheat? Yep.

Does that make them cheats? Nope.

but it is so hard to get inside Robbollocks (that was his name was it??) head.

now if this guy have only read once my post, we would be here talking about other sh**t...

Now once again for the slow ones, I repeat:

Did I say anything aout RL himself? no.

Did I say RL is the only one cheats? no.

A humans memory is weak. Let me remind you something;

On the previous Maxmasters, robbollocks sought after tontons because of the penalty points and that was right thing to do. You discovered the truth right??

Why the hell do you not show the same response to the RL?

I don't have a problem with any team or player in this paintball world, I just ask what the f**k is going on, because I show effort to play this sport. I am not going to let anyone get away for what he has done. Make no mistake.....

Isn't it time to understand that this is not about being pro or am, old or young, russian or turkish, catcrap or robbollocks??

Isn't it time to drop this ''Untouchables'' sh**t and watch some manners, treat people with respect?

This is my last response for this f**ng thread since some people definitely cannot hear or see because they are under 50 meters of crap...

and it is not a catcrap, it is robbollocks!!!!!!!!!!!

Get this auto gun thing out of the open... that is the only thing I want...

End Of story....

 

[Baca Loco]

If that's placid perhaps valium?

Originally posted by Robbo
I will try and keep my 'Placid' hat on here in answering some of this **** that has been written.
Baca, if we can't put people on a pedestal, after they have displayed time and again, they do not embrace the same predisposition to cheat like f##k as almost all the other pros do, then it has come to a sorry state.
I am not doing them any disservice, they are proud as much as I am heartened by their play, to ignore it in favour of what you would see as expediency, would be a crime indeed.
What would you have me do Baca, put some of your well known countrymen on a pedestal and then watch them cheat like **** as they go and play their games as we all have many times before?
Nah, that ain't gonna happen mate.

Robbo
My only point was that in making an example of RL you open them up to a very intense level of scrutiny and regardless of their best efforts people will on occasion find fault, deserved or otherwise, that undermines your desire to champion fair play. It was merely an observation.
As to where some of my well known countrymen belong I am deeply wounded (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, nod, nod, say no more) that you seem to have forgotten my opinion of many of them as it has been and remains far from positive.
I would however posit that you, in the 'person' of PGI regularly do exactly that (put them on a pedestal--by touting their exploits and naming them by name) without particular regard to how various 'big' names actually conduct themselves on the field of play.

Once again I'll return to the use of the term 'cheating' which seems to me the root of this particular debate. Cheating, by definition, implies a premeditated intention to circumvent rules to gain an unfair advantage.
Does cheating occur in paintball? Yes.
Is every infraction of the rules cheating?
No!
Using the word 'cheating' indiscriminately is inflammatory and doesn't advance the cause an iota.

Originally posted by Fisu

They were aware of the problem. I saw them lowering the mrof on pregame chrono but apparently it didn't help enough.

Seems to me this statement makes clear they realized there was a problem and that they made an effort to fix it. Subsequent actions also are clear that they didn't do enough which led to a rules violation.
Does that make them cheaters? No. Should they have been penalized? Yes. Are these somehow mutually exclusive? No!!!

Moo

 

[diablogeoff]

yes it was big we got stuck in the back so had 1 filed to fill and I did