Robbo

[Robbo]

Hmmmm, there comes a point in some debates (and I have had a few) where one party is more interested in being perceived as the winner than the truth being revealed.
This is one such thread, I can get bogged down and scrap on a philosophical level, debating every word and meaning to the point where everybody gets soo damn bored they would have switched off long before the end.
But I can tell you one thing, TJ, ain’t interested in the truth, he is interested in winning a debate and sometimes I’m afraid they ain’t the same thing.
He won’t win any debate with me on this, but he can prolong it, as he already has done long past this thread’s ‘sell by’ date.
The Turks were a great bunch of guys, TJ was directly connected with them and it is this that so clouds his opinion.
I played against the Turks many times, TJ’s experience of them was extremely limited to say the least, his experience of the Legion is nil other than what he has read about them in my articles and posts.
I could easily answer and rebut every argument and point he has raised but another post would soon erupt from him and I would have to do the same thing again.
I stand by my experience of 15 years in this game, I stand by knowing the Turks from the very first tournament they played to the very last, I stand behind playing against the Turks at Hookwood in their first venture into the big time and many games afterwards.
I stand behind the fact, I know this game of paintball better than TJ ever will and believe me, The Turks were nowhere near as good as the Russian Legion…..Period, No argument, No bull****, No philosophical chicanery…..you guys and gals make your own choice but I ain’t wasting any more of my time getting bogged down in meaningless dialogue prolonging a debate for the sake of somebody who cannot accept he was wrong !!!!
Yawn !!!!!!!!!
I’m getting ready for the presentation dinner tomorrow and I’m gonna get pissed (drunk to you Yanks)
Robbo

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Village Idiot
Interesting debate, although I can't understand why it needs to degenarate to insults and name calling.

Turks v Legion will always be difficult to predict. Take the Legion back to the days of the Turks, stick em in the woods, give em the same equipment and they would struggle I'm sure. Turks may have been laid back in their attitude to paintball, but on the field once the whistle went they were far from that.
Their fluid and unpredicatable way of playing and their field craft was a joy to watch and I for one learnt from watching them.

Had Turks carried on into the era of concept paintball, then who knows where they would have gone. By their standards, a long way methinks. Unfortunately, it was never going to happen, attitutes change, people move on etc etc.

Furthermore, I don't think that players today are any better at all, they may play different tactics but that has naturally evolved with the sport. That does not make them better players.

I saw many blinding players with blinding moves back then, moves that would make a concept tournie crowd roar today.

Village Idiot,
I was gonna leave this thread alone after my last post but I will make you an exception, I have never read a post so devoid of common sense.
Are you really trying to tell us you don't think players of today are better than years back ??????
R U kiddin me ????
The rest of your post is..................oh godamm it, I can't even be bothered anymore other than to say , you really do live up to your User Name don't you ????????????
Robbo

 

[gunnerson]

Seems to be that way with a lot of sports...paintball, no exception.

Example, Hockey: If someone were to say that Gordie Howe could school a guy like, Scott Gomez, I would laugh at them. Yes, Gordie Howe was a good player, but not nearly up to the standards of today.

Granted I don't know much about tournament play, I'm pretty sure its the same deal here. Technology changes, players are younger and faster, and techniques change too. Those who disagree really are, nostalgic romantics, or whatever Robbo said.

 

[TJ Lambini]

Final thoughts...

I am actually interested in the truth of the matter, but we ain't gonna get there - and you're right about a coupla things. One, I could keep the argument going forever if I chose to, and 2, your pball knowledge and experience is superior to mine.

So I'm happy to leave it there cos I think it was interesting and enlightening all-round and if it just degenerates into philosophical posturing then that's dull for tha board and everyone bar perhaps me an' you.

I'll stick with my beliefs, you stick with yours...

Peace all.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Final thoughts...

I am actually interested in the truth of the matter, but we ain't gonna get there - and you're right about a coupla things. One, I could keep the argument going forever if I chose to, and 2, your pball knowledge and experience is superior to mine.

So I'm happy to leave it there cos I think it was interesting and enlightening all-round and if it just degenerates into philosophical posturing then that's dull for tha board and everyone bar perhaps me an' you.

I'll stick with my beliefs, you stick with yours...

Peace all.

I'll stick with my 2+2 = 4 thankyou

 

[bm8282]

now that was an interesting thread to read, looks like robbo came out with the victory in that one!

 

[rancid]

The Turks 'd piss all over the russians.

 

[NIALL]

When all this kicked off ( Good one Piper) My memories of the Turks would probably have swayed my thoughts to them, to win in the woods, But a few things have happened this week to make me think twice.

To elaborate, the Turks had in their ranks some of the most natural players to ever pick up a marker.

Keith
John Boy
Ivan
my brother

The best was Keith Williams. Keith was seen to take on 4 or 5 players armed with semis, against him alone with a sterling pump. He out witted them and shot them all one by one. THis was just one example . Robbo readily acknowleged Keith's brilliance and I recall him referring to him as the guvnor. However they also had some of the worst players. (sorry Stav & Gary). They won Mayhem carrying at least 3 players!!! ( and John Boy broke his leg!) The ethos behind the Turks was friends first. This was the drunken approach that everybody gave them. Now when you add to the fact they they did not cheat and played teams that did, you could say that they suffered by being heavily out numbered on the field. Yet they still won a few events and pulled in creditable performances elsewhere. To this you must judge those players that were good were World Class. When the odds were stacked against them when the marshalling was weak they suffered BIG time. If they had the "professional" attitude of say the Preds, then they would , in my opinion, had a lot more trophies in their cabinet.

A couple of years ago the Turks put a scratch team into the 1st Sup Air Mayhem. Keith looked lost on the field. Where could he apply the craft the learnt in the woods against such a volume of paint and in such an alien environment. Quite simply he did not want to be there. He took up golf.

This week I have been editing footage of the Campaign DVD. I have seen hours of footage of play. The Russian Legions individual skill is phenomenal.
Most one one one encounters are won by them. You can see the level of care taken in playing tight to the maximim effect, the sheer quickness of reaction, it's incredible to watch. They don't seem to have got the whole team thing going just yet, but boy when they do they will beat every one. What they seem to have is a completely professional attitude, to be the best, by skill alone. If they combine that with the Turks sportsmanship then they will truly be, as Robbo says, the best team going.

There are thankfully a few non Russian Enigmas out there, that pulled a few magical moves, but I suppose you will have to wait to see those.

Finally, About time that that was some interesting arguments going on the board. Respect to Robbo and TJ.

Niall

 

[Kieran - Thunder]

I've played against Ivan quite a lot and he freely admits that he can't fire paint unless he's gonna hit someone and that doesn't really fit into modern arena based games. But playing him in the woods is something else!!! I never understand how he does it.

 

[Manning26]

Alright Pete, this is aimed right at you now, did Russian Legion evolve from a Russkie team by the name of Street Fighters? You seem to know more about 'Legion than anyone else here, and you skipped this earlier to throttle TJ further. I was curious if TJ knew also, 'cause TJ used to play NAAPSA events too. Thanks and take care.