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Chronicles of War

FUna

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Nov 20, 2002
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Originally posted by JoseDominguez
I was waiting for that one, think they're getting the point yet?

as for
Originally posted by JoseDominguez
???????? pointless argument mate, what you do in your own home is up to you, war themed paintball games are very public and it's the image of paintball I'm worried about.

They aren't going to say , he plays halo, ban paintball are they. See me in an SS uniform and it'd be different.

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"HALO, RPGs, War-Glorifying games are no different. They are not an "in the privacy of your home" issue because they are sold publically in your local shopping mall. (funa)"

Well, yes they are different as they aren't going to get paintball seen in a bad light. Plus, the comments about the next posters spelling were unwarranted, what gives you the right to speak to someone like that? And then after calling out points idiotic, you agree that vietnam themes have no place in paintball, what was your point again?
1) I think if you had read and comprehended my post you'd see my point spelled out plainly at the end. I'm for freedom of choice in the medium in which people enjoy paintball whether it be a scenario, rec, speedball, tourney, etc. I personally find historically based scenario games repugnant. Of course...if you had READ 2 of my last three posts it PLAINLY states this. But instead you've opted to find forum "sound bites" to reply to.

2) I never made fun of anyone's spelling. I challenge you to find and quote me making fun of someone's spelling. When you can't...I'd thank you to apologize for your public display of ignorance. I made fun of your lack of reading comprehension skills because you obviously can't understand what you read. (see point #1 where you have asked me twice what my point is and three times I've stated it plainly...want me to cut and paste all three in a subsequent post for you?)

3) Flying planes into towers...ha ha ha. Well...you know that I mentioned earlier how distasteful I found the "Taliban Village" field at SC Village in California, USA...so I've personally already addressed the issue...but apparently (see point #1 above) I can't count on you Euros to READ THOROUGHLY and UNDERSTAND the English language. All you're looking for is the aforementioned "Forum Bites" to have a knee jerk reaction to.

4) There are a bunch of you EuroPunks who just aren't going to read these posts and understand WE'RE ON YOUR DAMN SIDE...except that WE have a little more of an open mind when it comes to personal freedoms and liberties here in the USA. We have this thing over here called "Freedom Of Speech" and "Freedom Of Expression"...we apply this theme of freedom to others in that we may not LIKE them playing a D-DAY or Invasion Of Afghanistan, or Tet Offensive, or Taliban Terror Attack On New York scenario game, but we RESPECT their FREEDOM to do so.

What side am I on? I'm on the side of FREEDOM. If people want to play these type scenarios...then THEY ARE FREE TO DO SO...its THEIR style of paintball, not mine. Just like homosexuality might be some other guys form of sex, but its not mine and I respect his right to fellate another man even tho it disgusts me. He's FREE to do so.

But why am I bothering to write all this...you've already proven you won't read or understand it...you'll just pick it apart for things to rant about.
 

TJ 2

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Sep 9, 2001
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Just to prove you right here's my soundbite

>>>except that WE have a little more of an open mind when it comes to personal freedoms and liberties here in the USA.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....sorry, couldn't help myself.

People are reading your posts dude and understand your point of view, they are also arguing certain points of it. Deal.
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
Originally posted by FUna

3) Flying planes into towers...ha ha ha. Well...you know that I mentioned earlier how distasteful I found the "Taliban Village" field at SC Village in California, USA...so I've personally already addressed the issue...but apparently (see point #1 above) I can't count on you Euros to READ THOROUGHLY and UNDERSTAND the English language. All you're looking for is the aforementioned "Forum Bites" to have a knee jerk reaction to.

4) There are a bunch of you EuroPunks who just aren't going to read these posts and understand WE'RE ON YOUR DAMN SIDE...except that WE have a little more of an open mind when it comes to personal freedoms and liberties here in the USA. We have this thing over here called "Freedom Of Speech" and "Freedom Of Expression"...we apply this theme of freedom to others in that we may not LIKE them playing a D-DAY or Invasion Of Afghanistan, or Tet Offensive, or Taliban Terror Attack On New York scenario game, but we RESPECT their FREEDOM to do so.

What side am I on? I'm on the side of FREEDOM. If people want to play these type scenarios...then THEY ARE FREE TO DO SO...its THEIR style of paintball, not mine. Just like homosexuality might be some other guys form of sex, but its not mine and I respect his right to fellate another man even tho it disgusts me. He's FREE to do so.

But why am I bothering to write all this...you've already proven you won't read or understand it...you'll just pick it apart for things to rant about.
Better tone it down buddy. There are plenty of Europunks (like me) who have not misread what you posted. And perhaps somethings get said twice in this thread, but why is that a problem? If it's a good point, there's no harm in repeating it.
And for freedom, open minds, and all that BS? Puh-leeze... I come from what is arguably the most open minded and free place in the world. So please don't put all Europeans in the same box.
Other than that, I agree with most of your points. The only major difference is that I don't believe in this 'freedom' to do whatever you want. There are limits to it, one of them being when it gets to the point where it becomes disrespectful to people, i.e. the games based on historic events.
 

Jones the Paint Magnet

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Dec 19, 2001
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So Funa - perhaps I agree with you on a point - am I not allowed to speak freely in order to do so? D'you see me yelling "I told you so" when someone repeats the gist of one of my posts? Another so-called Europunk who not only gets the idea but actively supports it.

DizWolf - Kudos on your commitment to travel! Sounds like the situation in the US really is as Tyger et al described, particularly if you are prepared to put in all those road hours. We have a way to go in the Uk though - last scenario game I went to was the North V South (that's geograhical Uk sterotype, not Union V Confederacy), but there were too many players for the size of the site, and I'm not sure if the larger numbers planned are going to make it any more playable this year. It was a good 4 hrs drive and a camp over, so if the pull of the game is up to it, players will come (sounds like Waynes World 2). I just don't think there's that many good games in the UK at the moment, hopefully that will change.

For the US at least, players really will have to vote with their feet and dollars to make the sites and their themes sit up and notice.
 

Hotpoint

Pompey Paintballer
At the risk of this continuing to degenerate into a "Rights Vs Duties" argument I'll drop in my €0.02

Whilst you may have the right or "freedom" to do something it doesn't mean you should. You also have a responsibility to society as a whole (or in this case the P'ball fraternity)

There are certain themes which should be steered away from for the simple reason they could be used to damage the game. I would not advocate banning anything but would remind people who do undertake slightly dodgy scenarios that you do have a duty to the rest of us not to damage the game

For the umpteenth time of these forums I'll quote JS Mill "The only justifiable limit on freedom is when the exercise of that freedom infringes on the liberty of others"

If you only look out for number-one don't be surprised when the rest of us opt not to look out for you ;)
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Originally posted by Jones the Paint Magnet
Sounds like the situation in the US really is as Tyger et al described, particularly if you are prepared to put in all those road hours.
...
I just don't think there's that many good games in the UK at the moment, hopefully that will change.

For the US at least, players really will have to vote with their feet and dollars to make the sites and their themes sit up and notice.
Oh, we do. We do.

There's a following in teh US of players who will drive hardcore to events. T-Rev gets players from all over the USA, for example. Scenario games have been bringing games to the people lately, MXS being one, in order to make it easier for players to get into a scenario game.

I've driven, wow, don't ask how many hours to play games. I've traveled from California to New York for big games, and I'll do it again. EMR's Castle Conquest, that's gonna be at least 18 hours to drive it. But I'll be there.

Alien and Yoda have me beat tho. They came from you're guys neck of the woods to play at Sam's big game in Wisconsin. Rumor has it they're gonna do it again in May. Bring it on boys, 700+ people. :)

The answer int eh UK is to demand better games, you too can vote with your feet, remember that.

-Tyger
 

Trinity

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Oct 16, 2002
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After debating long and hard as to whether to enter this discussion and wondering what I could bring to it, without aiding it into a continuing spiral. I decided to a small amount of research and go back to Bacca’s original quote.

"14 different "war games" scenarios at locations around the country tied together under the banners of some serious industry and media support. The Big Idea that ties them all together is the notion these are educational studies on the futility of conflict and how such might be avoided in the future. Pretty clever but does that change anything and does it really matter? How big a deal are wargame scenarios anyway?
(And yes, I know, some discussions have touched on this subject before but look at what seems like an explosion of scenario games and new products like Tippmann's A-5. Seems like a lot is suddenly being actively invested in the Rambo side of pball.)"

To try and understand what exactly he was asking.
I looked up the definition of Scenario it is “ an Outline of a plot, or a Postulated sequence of future events”
A paintball game whether it is a rec day a big game or x-ball is based on a scenario. This is your purpose for playing i.e the first flag grab, eliminate the other team players or occupy an oppositions home base.
When fantasy, sci-fi or war themes are introduced it is to aid the player to become some one else for the day and to increase their enjoyment and participation.
For example I have a friend who is more sloth like than I care to mention, but put a marker in his hand and say your job above all else is to get to the 50m marker and grab that flag, and he goes like a bat out of hell.
Also when you introduce a story line people tend to be more creative, with the addition of costumes and props, just look at the thousands who play Dungeons and Dragons, and big games already.
In this respect any game is educational, players must learn skills such as pateince, communication and accuracy making them better players and therefore utimately increasing the enjoyment of the game.

I have deliberately skirted the war game scenario, because if you are introducing, fictional characters and landscape but saying you are to opposing factions of a country who are arguing over a water source, you must destroy their three bases. Eliminate the chain of command and take prisoners, then this is a war scenario and is as acceptable as using any other story. As the majority of any scenarios will still fall under the classification of war which by definition is “armed hostilities between esp. nations” “Hosility or contention between people”.

When you use Factual places and people to describe games you are then entering into a very tender subject, as you all have proven above.
Is it acceptible to say the groups are called America and Japan or England and Germany? Yes in a perfect world. Where we all live together as one people and have put aside all bigotries and hatred. BUT we have not.
I feel the use of actual past conflicts is use in the most part to generate a hightned conflict in the group, as we have proved every one has an opinion of what is right and wrong, and who is right or wrong in a conflict. Take the September 11th devastation and death under any circumstance is wrong. But there will be many who believe (and forgive for I am not one of them) that America had encouraged this conflict and the action of the few was justified. I beleive under any circumstance, to use this WW11, the Vietnam war, or any other conflict is wrong. It is not educational, they do not begin at the beginning of the day and say how many died on either side, they do not say how long countries tried to avoid the ultimate conflict, or how long it took them to recover after it. They do not tell you af the atroucities commited on both side and they do not emphasise that war is the greatest horror that xould be reeked upon a people.
For the most part to me they use these as tools for an easy situation which they know will stir up feeling in pretty much every one.
And as we stand on the brink of war yet again, do we feel it is fitting that we should continue to do this?
They only way it will stop is if we stop playing them or speak out and say we would prefer not to.

Does it change anything? Yes I believe it does. What we foster as a people is passed down through generations as a learning tool for the young. What we believe as paintballers around the globe will become the accepted norm for the next generation, this is how the game develops. If we speak out we may feel like a lone voice in the wilderness, but when we stand up and be counted then we can change it. May be if Big game organisers questioned their customers they may find more people who would prefer to change. Many people feel they have no say because they are not asked.
Well I am asking.
What are we going to do about it?
 

Trinity

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Oct 16, 2002
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Standing on the brink of war?

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
I always thought you had to have two armies to fight a war...confused:

Sorry, off-topic.
I meant as a nation. Sorry got bit by a soap box this morning:)
Confusion...seems to follow you round a bit, was it all the loud music? :D :D