Paintball Markers no longer on E-Bay

[davezip]

Getting back to the title of this thread, I understand that fully autos may not be illegal in this country, its a matter of opinion, so e-bay should have no problem.

I read somewhere that thunderflashes which are explosives and probably are illegal in this country.

If this is the case then how is it that Havoc Paintball is selling thunderflashes on e-bay.

Wasn't he the person responsible for selling fully auto's on e-bay in the first place.

If anyone is giving paintball a bad name isn't it him.

Can't anything be done about him. My dad says that everyone should just not buy from him, or tell the police about him

 

[crom-dubh]

Manike

Again you are flaming me for no other reason than to prove your point.

The statement about the bruising was quoting the police firearms team.

If you want to be exact the law states that anything firing over 1 ft/lbs is lethal.

Just because there is no law stating exactly where paintball markers stand in the eyes of the law doesnt mean that laws do not apply to them. It is a given fact that a paintball marker uses air (or CO2 which was added as an ammendment to the firearms act in 1997). An air gun is some thing which has a barrel, uses air or CO2 as a propellent and fires between 1-12 ft/lbs. Paintball markers do this. Hence a paintball marker is an air gun.

Manike if you want to argue this then explain where a paintball marker falls short of being an airgun instead of just being pedantic. I was not quoting the law about the slight bruising, I was trying to explain to someone about our gun laws.

The law defines anything firing over 1 ft/lb to be lethal. Neither you or me is gonna change that. You seem to be basing all of your arguments on the word "lethal". Like I said in an earlier post, there has to be a catagory between "harmless" and "likely to cause seious injury or death".

Again Manike I ask you to back your claims up with evidence. All of your arguments have just been your opinion with absolutely no hard facts.

 

[crom-dubh]

Davezip

After my little rant in "speak your brains" about Havoc selling illegal markers, he has now changed what he sells on his website.

Unfortunatly he is still selling thunderflashes on ebay. As long as he is not selling them to under 18's then he is not breaking the law, but he is breaking Ebays rules by selling fireworks (which thunderflashes are classed as).

 

[Liz]

Lethal?

I was getting a bit confused with this talk about how bad a bruise it has to be for it to be classed as "lethal", as I though I knew the definition of the word.
Quote from the Oxford Concise Dictionary "Lethal - Causing, sufficient or designed to cause death".
However we look at it & however bad it is, a bruise is just a bruise & therefore NOT a lethal injury.

 

[crom-dubh]

Liz

You are confusing the actual term for lethal with what the government deems as lethal. If it was only weapons that could kill you that was classed as firearms then there would be no laws against air rifles.

Lethal (when it comes to the firearms laws) is anything which fires a projectile over 1 ft/lbs. Paintball markers fire at about 10 ft/lbs.

The law does not say that a marker has to be lethal (in the actual sense of the word) to be covered under the firearms act.
And whether you think its lethal or not, paintball markers are air rifles (does anyone disagree with that?) and as such must obey all the laws governing air rifles.

 

[manike]

Crom Dubh, I am not flaming you. I don't agree with the way you are presenting your arguement or the points of the regulations you leave out to paint the picture that you want to. For some reason you seem to want to sensationalise something in a manner which I do not think can be good for paintball. You are asking for proof and evidence on something that hasn't not been proven and that is my whole point about your comments!

You are making generalisations which may or may not be true but we will not know for certain until decided upon in a court of law. You state your opinion as if fact and without all the mitigating circumstances. Therefore I have issue with your posts.

To be honest if you don't see the differece between what you are posting and the details you are omitting and that I am pointing out then I really do not think you should be the person campaigning for what IS or IS NOT legal in terms of paintball. Do you have any actualy legal training or experience in such matters?

If not I would like to politely suggest that you leave such matters to those that do and who are campaigning in as good a light as possible for our sport such as Hotpoint and the UKPSF rather than sensationalising issues which in the UK can only help have us looked badly upon.

I don't agree with how you approached e-bay. I do not think it to have been very well done. I would much rather 'we' as a sport use our representatives such as the UKPSF who do have experience to deal with such matters, and advise those that are unhappy with issues in paintball that they take it up with them such that they can fight carefully for us a representative body.

manike

 

[crom-dubh]

OK manike

You have had Hotpoint saying that paintball markers are airguns
I have shown you what the firearms laws are and you still disagree. Just because you cannot make sense of the laws doent mean that I cannot.

On the Ebay thing I am not sure what you are talking about? I have never contacted Ebay nor have I said that I have. I posted on these boards my findings thats all, so please dont accuse me of doing something that silly.

Right lets get back to basics. Do you think that paintball markers are classed as air guns?

Do you think that full auto markers are not illegal?

Do you think that markers firing over 330 fps are illegal?

You think that I Am trying to score points here. But what if you are wrong? Somebody reads this and sees someone who is respected in the paintball community saying that markers do not have to obey the firarms laws?
I have posted all the relevant info from the gun laws here and have posted links to the home office web site. So what did I leave out? You on the other hand have put up nothing exept your opinion with absolutly no evidence what so ever. So I dont think you can accuse me off not showing all the facts when you have shown none.

 

[crom-dubh]

Where have I sensationalised this?
The only place I have put up info is on these boards.
There are a few threads going around which touch on this subject and I am not the only one who thinks markers are covered under the firearms laws.

If you want to carry this on then please find evidence for what you are saying.

 

[manike]

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Somebody reads this and sees someone who is respected in the paintball community saying that markers do not have to obey the firarms laws

WTF?!?!

if you can't understand why myself and others are making the posts we are, then rehashing points is not going to help you, us or paintball.

I suggest we take it to the pub and discuss it over a pint. Until then leave the legal people and our sports representatives to fight this battle.

When trying to make a good point you can fight a bad fight.

I also believe markers are/should be governed under the firearms act, and have fought many times saying that and looking at the technology we use to keep us within those rules and regulations. I have and will fight to make sure we stay within the tightest rules therein. To protect our sport.

I do not believe they are fire arms though and will fight to stop people making a connection between our sports equipment and lethal things that 'criminals and bad people' are thought to use. To protect our sport.

Can you not see the difference? and the relevance of the difference? if you can not then I will waste no more time replying to your points.

manike

 

[crom-dubh]

So you cannot back up any of your thoughts with evidence then?

You say that markers are governed by the firearms act. Well that makes them firearms. Other wise it would be the firearms and airgun act.