Delta Force Hard Sell
- Thread starter Roland
- Start date
yeah, but they still don't have any insurance.
(of course you don't need insurance, but with 60 customers being reffed by a pair of teenagers, there's no chance of any accidents happening...)
(of course you don't need insurance, but with 60 customers being reffed by a pair of teenagers, there's no chance of any accidents happening...)
Just to set the record straight
Red, DF DO have insurance. They have Public Liability and Employees liability. Both insurances are current and for several million. Our safety standards and business practice would blow most UK sites out of the water.
Consider this: Most marshals at other paintball sites are paid cash in hand, yes? Paintball sites do this so they pay less for their Employees Liability insurance which is based on the number of staff employed. Basically they lie to the insurance company. DF don't. EVERY employee is required to complete a P40 and income tax is paid by DF ON TOP of their agreed daily rate. Both Employees and Emplolyers National Insurance contributions are also paid by DF on top of the wage received by the marshal. WHY do i mention this?? Well everyone it seems is worried about the public having an accident at a DF site and 'not being insured' (although we are) yet what about the EMPLOLYEES ie you lot who marshal cash in hand each week? Well guys YOU'RE NOT INSURED if you have an accident because YOU'RE not technically 'employees' if you're paid in this way!
Re the other points i'll answer them later coz i'm in a rush just now,
Love n hugs, Gups xx
Red, DF DO have insurance. They have Public Liability and Employees liability. Both insurances are current and for several million. Our safety standards and business practice would blow most UK sites out of the water.
Consider this: Most marshals at other paintball sites are paid cash in hand, yes? Paintball sites do this so they pay less for their Employees Liability insurance which is based on the number of staff employed. Basically they lie to the insurance company. DF don't. EVERY employee is required to complete a P40 and income tax is paid by DF ON TOP of their agreed daily rate. Both Employees and Emplolyers National Insurance contributions are also paid by DF on top of the wage received by the marshal. WHY do i mention this?? Well everyone it seems is worried about the public having an accident at a DF site and 'not being insured' (although we are) yet what about the EMPLOLYEES ie you lot who marshal cash in hand each week? Well guys YOU'RE NOT INSURED if you have an accident because YOU'RE not technically 'employees' if you're paid in this way!
Re the other points i'll answer them later coz i'm in a rush just now,
Love n hugs, Gups xx
Although Skirmish in Norfolk pay's the marshalls cash in hand on the day, the NI contributions and any tax due are paid directly by Skirmish and we then receive a full payslip during the week. So that's all done above board and we are "employee's". So DF is hardly the only company to do this...
Glad to hear that Andy, i hold Skirmish in high regard personally so it doesn't surprise me Of course there are sites other than DF who pay tax and Ni on marshals' pay but i know there are a lot of sites that don't. I know this because i have worked at 3 other sites and in none of thesde cases was i given a payslip or asked to give my NI number.
You can go 8 times to the same or different DF centres or 8 people can go once, or any combination thereof. When you decide the date you want to play you phone the booking hotline or complete an e-form online. You are then asked to pay a further £10 per head (this is all explained on the VIP tickets so it's not a hidden cost). This £10 gets you your first 100 paintballs when you arrive at the site they are given to you at registration. This is where the "half price paint" bit gets misunderstood or misconstrued. If you have paid £10 for your first 100 then £5 per 100 is half of that.
Personally when i explain how the VIP's work i prefer to say the £10 consists of a £5 booking/admin fee and £5 for your first 100 paintballs. DF charge £10 up front because we book 'X' number of marshals in to work for 'x' number of expected players. If a group of 25 VIP's fail to turn up that day then we are at a loss when it comes to marshals' wages.
Yes i agree the wording is sales hype, but that's what sales is all about, getting bums on seats, or in our case markers in hands..
Re Co2 bottles on VIP'ers guns, i may as well answer that too, although it's an old comment: I said the guns have no CO2, not that they don't have Co2 cylinders. I always remove the burst disk from the co2 cylinders when they are intended for display purposes so they can't be filled and the valve from the marker too, just so i know 100% that they won't be misused by a numpty who knows everything about sales techniques but nothing about paintball and UK Law
Jiggy: Yeah i love to wind the VIP'ers up too. I always make time for them ibut only to try to catch them out.
Seriously guys, if you see a VIP'er acting irresponsibly or giving you complete twaddle, email me where and when you saw them, and if you can, their name, and i'll make sure the manager in the sales co sees your complaint.
*sigh* right, i'm clocking off for the day now...i don't get paid for this, lol!
Of course there are sites other than DF who pay tax and Ni on marshals' pay but i know there are a lot of sites that don't. I know this because i have worked at 3 other sites and in none of thesde cases was i given a payslip or asked to give my NI number.The way the VIP tickets work is this: They cost £50 for a book of 8 tickets, or about £6.50 per person. This gets you entry to site, coveralls, goggles, pack & pots, Inferno, Co2 (inc refills) and hopper. The only other thing you have to buy is paint. Lunch is also not included because we prefer people to have that choice and not assume customers will want it.
You can go 8 times to the same or different DF centres or 8 people can go once, or any combination thereof. When you decide the date you want to play you phone the booking hotline or complete an e-form online. You are then asked to pay a further £10 per head (this is all explained on the VIP tickets so it's not a hidden cost). This £10 gets you your first 100 paintballs when you arrive at the site they are given to you at registration. This is where the "half price paint" bit gets misunderstood or misconstrued. If you have paid £10 for your first 100 then £5 per 100 is half of that.
Personally when i explain how the VIP's work i prefer to say the £10 consists of a £5 booking/admin fee and £5 for your first 100 paintballs. DF charge £10 up front because we book 'X' number of marshals in to work for 'x' number of expected players. If a group of 25 VIP's fail to turn up that day then we are at a loss when it comes to marshals' wages.
Yes i agree the wording is sales hype, but that's what sales is all about, getting bums on seats, or in our case markers in hands..
Re Co2 bottles on VIP'ers guns, i may as well answer that too, although it's an old comment: I said the guns have no CO2, not that they don't have Co2 cylinders. I always remove the burst disk from the co2 cylinders when they are intended for display purposes so they can't be filled and the valve from the marker too, just so i know 100% that they won't be misused by a numpty who knows everything about sales techniques but nothing about paintball and UK Law
Jiggy: Yeah i love to wind the VIP'ers up too. I always make time for them ibut only to try to catch them out.
Seriously guys, if you see a VIP'er acting irresponsibly or giving you complete twaddle, email me where and when you saw them, and if you can, their name, and i'll make sure the manager in the sales co sees your complaint.
*sigh* right, i'm clocking off for the day now...i don't get paid for this, lol!
that's new then...
because you were on these very boards about a year ago telling us that you didn't need insurance...
Look, fact is Guppy, that you're fighting an uphill battle here. most folks in the UK can't stand Delta Force, and would rather they didn't exist. Maybe Delta Force has cleaned up it's act in recent days, since i don't live in England anymore, i'm not up to date on these things.
But past business practices have been dogey, and the shaved chimps you have 'hard selling' paintball tickets on the high street really arn't helping helping the cretibility of the Delta Force brand.
There's a lot of misleading advertising, in fact most customers end up spending more money than if they ended up at a proper site.
As for the insurance, and NI, well there's always going to be some shady operators who don't have insurance, but most of the reputable sites that Delta Force happen to have set up next door to; well these guys usually do. After all anybody making money these days seems to get investigated by Inland Revenue.
When i was living in the UK i lost track of the number of people who were put off of playing rec paintball because of Delta Force sites.
Maybe things are changing on Delta Force sites, i don't know. But until they conform to the UKPSF standards, i wouldn't recomend them to anybody.
It's too bad really cause you always come across as being a nice person Guppy, and i feel bad that you get stuck defending a bunch of useless twats...
Red,...You're drawing your own conclusions. I said i DIDN'T KNOW if DF had insurance then or not. This is because my role in the company a year ago was little more than marshal/gun & co2 tech. Now i'm much more involved in health and safety, so i'm more informed.
The post you refer to i do remember and i was merely trying to lay to rest a misconception that Public Liability was required by Law. I was saying that IF DF, or any other site, didn't have PL insurance it made no difference to a claimant's rights as they could still claim directly from the site owner/operator. Likewise if someone is hurt and a site DOES have PL insurance the claimant STILL has to prove negligence on behalf of the Insured. PL insurance purely protects the site owner financially and exists for no other reason.
Re the rest of your post, i don't feel that i'm protecting a 'bunch of useless twats', although in a company our size there's bound to be one or two
. DF is a professional company, fully legal and trying their best to provide the best equipment and highest safety standards for rental play in the UK. As a paintballer i wouldn't work for a company if i felt they were lacking on the safety side. I'm passionalte about it ffs!With respect Red, you know nothing about the business practice or health and safety policies/procedures of DF. Your arguements are based purely on the hearsay grapevine and you've taken it as gospel. Sit back and think a minute before you eagerly participate in the juicy gossipmongering, most of which is started by disgruntled site owners and marshals who are losing out as DF prosper. If we get it wrong, we appreciate customers telling us directly so we can improve things, but propaganda is never productive as it's usually based in myth.
For instance, in the past couple of weeks a rumour came out of another paintball site, with which we are both familiar, claiming that one of our marshals was seriously injured by a co2 cannister at one of our Surrey centres. What a load of tripe, it never happened. But i'm sure that one will do the rounds and be greatly embellished too.......
PS: i think you're a nice person too
paintball politics suck!