Filling your bottles
- Thread starter Tom Allen
- Start date
WhatI have the apparatus at home to fill my bottle with argon. although I am wary when filling bottles. The results of using argon was better than air. A denser noble gas that would be used if it was economically efficient
Basically im saying that. Its always a nervous thing filling bottles. And just adding that they can be filled with argon to 4500 psi sucesfully. Good alternative to air. Can even be mixedWhat
argon ?Basically im saying that. Its always a nervous thing filling bottles. And just adding that they can be filled with argon to 4500 psi sucesfully. Good alternative to air. Can even be mixed
Is that even legal or safe ?
This argon stuff, is it covered by any sites insurance ?
Can someone please clarify this ?
I dont use argon at sites i have a seperate bottle. With a remote line at home that can attatch to my marker. I use a 68ci 4500 with air as my bottle at training which is only filled there or at lips. Looking for a scuba but my local dive centre is closed now. Argon although is a noble gas and is more stable than air. But obviously you cant use it at a paintball field no one would be as silly to use anything other than the reccomended at a paintball field. Argon is found in oxygen anyway its extracted from the atmosphere and is in such small doses. The reason why it isnt used is because of cost. Although if it was economically appropriate it would perform much bettwr because of the density being slightly more. Although most argon cylinders are 250 bar which means you wouls get 4000psi roughly. Good to use at home. But obviously not to use anywhere where guidelines state the use of n2 breathing air.
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I'm in the crap my pants crew . Probably not practical but why can't these bottles be filled remotely hook them up shut a blast proof door press a red button and bingo it fills to 3000..
Most walkons I go on not being ageist but most are kids who don't appear trained at all except being over keen to help. I for one am **** scared because surely if said kid happens to fill your bottle up and it blows who is covered obviously I don't want that on my conscience.
Its simple to fill your bottle but I have had a bottle get stuck, line whip itself off and if you don't have your head screwed on when something happens you can easily hurt someone.
Definitely should be a safety brief video or summit compulsory before a walkon and even then maybe have an age restriction with supervision at all times. I always ask if I'm unsure and keep my bottle pointed away from myself and others. I prefer to fill my own bottle as at least then I do not risk anyone else.
Some sort of bottle holder I'd like to see so your not actually touching the bottle when its being filled. I'm surprised staff even go any where near a bottle not owned by the site because its a massive unknown no way can they be insured for that.
If my gear hurts someone i would imagine I am liable and that site would come after me, right? So another reason why to fill your own bottle.
. Probably not practical but why can't these bottles be filled remotely hook them up shut a blast proof door press a red button and bingo it fills to 3000.. Most walkons I go on not being ageist but most are kids who don't appear trained at all except being over keen to help. I for one am **** scared because surely if said kid happens to fill your bottle up and it blows who is covered obviously I don't want that on my conscience.
Its simple to fill your bottle but I have had a bottle get stuck, line whip itself off and if you don't have your head screwed on when something happens you can easily hurt someone.
Definitely should be a safety brief video or summit compulsory before a walkon and even then maybe have an age restriction with supervision at all times. I always ask if I'm unsure and keep my bottle pointed away from myself and others. I prefer to fill my own bottle as at least then I do not risk anyone else.
Some sort of bottle holder I'd like to see so your not actually touching the bottle when its being filled. I'm surprised staff even go any where near a bottle not owned by the site because its a massive unknown no way can they be insured for that.
If my gear hurts someone i would imagine I am liable and that site would come after me, right? So another reason why to fill your own bottle.
On a couple of points there -
There is an age limit for fills - 18+
Fill stations should be supervised, so that those responsible for the full station (the site or the contracted air supplier) can ensure only those old enough / familiar with the process are filling, and cylinders are legal
If your gear hurts someone then yes - you become the one liable
With regard to 'blast proof' this was all raised a number of years back when the flash fill incidents etc took place.
The issues with this are:
What is blast proof? Is it to avoid injury if a disk, regulator or joint fails and air pressure escapes, or is it if there is a flash explosion? Remembering that this involves a high pressure cylinder totally failing and exploding.
If its not up to the job when things go wrong then you've just added more to the shrapnel.
It's more practical to do a sensible risk assessment and to hold the cylinder in a way that failures have somewhere to go (burst disks have space to exhaust, the cylinder can be dangled at the regulator between fingers - so that it is clear above and below
Alternately have a rig that you can put the cylinder in (but, again - without adding to shrapnel) also if no one is touching the cylinder how do you know it is getting hot so that you stop and pause?
Part of the risk assessment covers the sites own cylinders and customer cylinders
At some places you will find staff refuse to fill private cylinders - the owner of the cylinder / person filling is liable for the cylinder they bring
I keep reading things on here that imply some places have gone backwards on air fills and forgotten the lessons learned a few years back
There is an age limit for fills - 18+
Fill stations should be supervised, so that those responsible for the full station (the site or the contracted air supplier) can ensure only those old enough / familiar with the process are filling, and cylinders are legal
If your gear hurts someone then yes - you become the one liable
With regard to 'blast proof' this was all raised a number of years back when the flash fill incidents etc took place.
The issues with this are:
What is blast proof? Is it to avoid injury if a disk, regulator or joint fails and air pressure escapes, or is it if there is a flash explosion? Remembering that this involves a high pressure cylinder totally failing and exploding.
If its not up to the job when things go wrong then you've just added more to the shrapnel.
It's more practical to do a sensible risk assessment and to hold the cylinder in a way that failures have somewhere to go (burst disks have space to exhaust, the cylinder can be dangled at the regulator between fingers - so that it is clear above and below
Alternately have a rig that you can put the cylinder in (but, again - without adding to shrapnel) also if no one is touching the cylinder how do you know it is getting hot so that you stop and pause?
Part of the risk assessment covers the sites own cylinders and customer cylinders
At some places you will find staff refuse to fill private cylinders - the owner of the cylinder / person filling is liable for the cylinder they bring
I keep reading things on here that imply some places have gone backwards on air fills and forgotten the lessons learned a few years back
Why not just a ring that you sit the bottle into have a long enough hose so it aint stupidly short like most sites then its a lot more unlikely to hurt anyone. The bottle can be sat straight with the reg pointing up then as well. I could make something like that in 5 mins for next to nothing your right though people don't realise the danger until something happens site owners included it seems.