Was safety ignored at the World Cup?

[Buddha 3]

Pete, you can forget about that drink now...

Simon, I've seen you get into plenty of arguments on these boards, and sometimes I've had questions about what motivated you (as I'm sure it's happened vice versa), but I don't think I've ever in my mind questioned your integrity as a player. (God, I feel sick just saying that... )

Anyway. This whole thing is pretty damn serious, whether or not people brought their toolbox onto the field. Is there nothing that can be done against such insanity? Do the organisers not have an obligation to ensure maximum safety for the players and spectators? As players we have to accept the safety rules, surely the organisers are bound by the same rules. How do we as players prevent organisers from ever f***ing is over like that again? The birth of the Super 7's gives the players a nice way of saying "I ain't having that". But what if the PSP was still the only thing around? Do we just quit paintball?

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
...But what if the PSP was still the only thing around? Do we just quit paintball?

It has been kinda like the days in America when we only had the Bell telephone system's monopoly. Sure more and more people kept signing up. There was no choice and demand was growing! At least, however, there was a public service commision that you could complain to. Compain now and whaddaya get: a bunch of Mike Oxbig and Chris Raehl types who make excuses about how it can't be done in America. Bull****!

Like I posted this morning on Smacktalk, I don't care who does the job. It could be bleedin' Saddam or Osama. Just as long as it gets done. And when it comes to safety, there's NO EXCUSE! No ifs ands or buts.

Steve

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Wadidiz
It has been kinda like the days in America when we only had the Bell telephone system's monopoly. Sure more and more people kept signing up. There was no choice and demand was growing! At least, however, there was a public service commision that you could complain to. Compain now and whaddaya get: a bunch of Mike Oxbig and Chris Raehl types who make excuses about how it can't be done in America. Bull****!

Like I posted this morning on Smacktalk, I don't care who does the job. It could be bleedin' Saddam or Osama. Just as long as it gets done. And when it comes to safety, there's NO EXCUSE! No ifs ands or buts.

Steve

Steve , who is this Oxbig fellow ?

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Robbo
Steve , who is this Oxbig fellow ?

Don't know, Pete. He answers every post on Smacktalk, and sometimes here, that in any way questions PSP's Benevolent Leadership with hate-shizit about Chuck. Notice his mirrored message to Dynasty in the signature part of his posts. Wonder if it's Jerry Himself.

Steve

 

[shamu]

Hate to disturb the threadjacking but to get back to some of the original points....

One of the things I've noticed, both in playing and from the discussion boards, is the consistency factor between team refs and PRO refs. Some of the team reffing is superb (Bob Long's crew, GZ, Shock), others are not (Vegas anyone?). While the PRO refs may not be as good as the best of the team refs, they're more consistent in their approach. Chronoing, onfield reffing, following rules like goggles-on, etc - as the PROs get more experience I'm sure they'll approach the level of the best team refs.

So what do we do about the consistency? A couple of suggestions have been to create performance-based penalties and/or appoint head refs for each field.

Would this improve things like safety? Quality of reffing? Overall consistency?

Also - how many of you would be willing to give up playing and become a PRO? What would it take?

 

[JTHM]

Originally posted by manike
Good, because you would be lieing to them.

Mistaken perhaps, but lieing, no. To lie one would have to intentionally state a known falsehood.

All I can remember is the set across from the air station and another across from the entrance from the tents ( Extreme Rage Booth ).

I'll remember to correct my statements in futher conversations.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by shamu
Hate to disturb the threadjacking but to get back to some of the original points....

One of the things I've noticed, both in playing and from the discussion boards, is the consistency factor between team refs and PRO refs. Some of the team reffing is superb (Bob Long's crew, GZ, Shock), others are not (Vegas anyone?). While the PRO refs may not be as good as the best of the team refs, they're more consistent in their approach. Chronoing, onfield reffing, following rules like goggles-on, etc - as the PROs get more experience I'm sure they'll approach the level of the best team refs.

So what do we do about the consistency? A couple of suggestions have been to create performance-based penalties and/or appoint head refs for each field.

Would this improve things like safety? Quality of reffing? Overall consistency?

Also - how many of you would be willing to give up playing and become a PRO? What would it take?

Shamu, in my opinion the program I have repeated so many times on this forum can make a marked improvement in all of those areas (reducing systematic cheating, improving the overall quality of reffing especially in the area of consistent enforcement of the rules, safety). People who actually read my comments will be relieved that I won't repeat the points. They're still on the thread, "Enforcing the rule...".

Think about it. If you had a "pit boss" on every field who was watching and providing leadership and looking at the bigger picture rather than just "the way we as a team usually ref" then that alone will improve consistency. After every incident that comes up the judges always talk about what went down and the head-judge can interpret and give guidance and encourage about how it was handled and how it might could have been handled better.

If refs start taking their masks off in the presence of unbagged markers then of course the head-judge will get on their cases with the requisite warnings and penalties that might be necessary. Any corner-cutting with hot guns will have to be snuck by under the nose of the head-judge, which should be a firing offense.

As for the PRO question, I don't know. I still believe in the possibility of player-reffing working if handled like I suggest. At least for a couple of more seasons while PRO recruits, trains and phases in their corps.

Steve

 

[Bobvannes]

The only thing I've seen Pro refs do every time was yell at me about tucking my shirt in when I play on one of their fields.

Pro refs are a great idea, but the current set are all geeks without any game so this is the closest they can be to the top levels of paintball (Boogie and probably a few others excluded). They just don't have any idea some of the time and the rest of the time they are just too easy to jedi mind trick. I want the idea to work because they are less biased, but it has not worked so far.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Bobvannes
The only thing I've seen Pro refs do every time was yell at me about tucking my shirt in when I play on one of their fields.

Pro refs are a great idea, but the current set are all geeks without any game so this is the closest they can be to the top levels of paintball (Boogie and probably a few others excluded). They just don't have any idea some of the time and the rest of the time they are just too easy to jedi mind trick. I want the idea to work because they are less biased, but it has not worked so far.

I hear what you're saying but I take issue with the need for a good ref to have game. I know that I have never considered even for a moment whether or not any ref or umpire in any other sport had game or not. The issue is whether or not the person in question, like you said, is unbiased. Add to that thoroughly knowledgeable about the rules and what must be done in awkward situations, is consistent, is decisive and can mentally and physically handle hot tempers and hot weather.

Steve

 

[shamu]

Reffing is mostly mental. For example - how well do you know the rules, how the game develops, how to make a call and, most of all, how to make a decision.

Playing is mostly physical. While there is a mental aspect to it, the physical skills are more important, i.e. how you play a bunker, shooting skills, how fast you run.

While it's important for the ref to know and understand the game, they don't have to "have game." How many NFL or NBA refs do you think are great football or basketball players?

You're right about the problems with the PRO refs. Hopefully they'll get better over time. If I'm going to get a bad call, I'd rather it be from someone who's trying their best and made an honest mistake than from someone who doesn't care and is only there because they have to be.