Why Can't the US be like Euro?

[Robbo]

Originally posted by headrock6
But this isnt the first time nor do i think it will be the last time PSP has let teams register in such short periods of time to make more money..
Then at A.C. they capped the # of teams as to not have the same problems earlier in the year and then go back to the old policy for Cup..So they sugarcoat the problem 4 one event and keep teams happy only to pull the same bull$hit a little down the line..
And Pete,have we seen the effects of what holding the X-Ball event at Disney has had yet??Are they interested in the least bit in it??After how upper brass ranted and raved at how big this could be 4 paintballs future just what did it exactly do for our beloved sport??
And im not being cynical,just wanted to know, honestly
L8R,
-6

Head, God knows what I am doing up at this ungodly hour posting but here goes anyway, I doubt we will ever see a capping of the times at a sensible time before the tournament starts, as the promoters will always try to maximise their income and I have no problem with that as long as they make due provision for their extended entry list.
Don't take their frikkin money if you can't provide for everybody who does attend...it's both simple and courteous !!
You won't see any immediate effects from the showcase of X-Ball at Disney because at this stage of the game, Disney are merely looking at X-Ball as another income stream based on the sheer number of people who attend the events and maybe getting them into Disney hotels.
There is, as of yet, no direct link or even indirect link between Disney and any potential TV deal that I know of.
The X-Ball package as presented to any potential TV company is independent of Disney but Disney's partial participation will give the event some much needed credence.
Richmond told me that later on this year two half hour films (same footage, just aired twice) of the X-Ball played in Pittsburgh will be aired on TV, so that's a start, we'll see what happens after that.
Richmond is sending me a copy over, so I'll have a look at it when it arrives.
And as for you mentioning you possibly being cynical, damn, if you been in this game for longer than five minutes, then I'm afraid cynicism is unavoidable if you've got any sense of morality or fair play
Laterz
Robbo

 

[Bigdog]

There should be a bigger sense of pride in attending

Originally posted by Robbo
, I ain't buying that 'sheer number of teams' mitigation, the entry date should have been capped and due plans made on that basis, to allow over 50 odd teams to register so near the close date smacks more of dollar chasing than it does of participant consideration.
You can't have it both ways mate, you can't boast about how big the cup is and in the same sentence have to put your hands up to abysmal conveniences.
By the way, that's the seventh world cup I been to, I missed last year's.
But as I said before, I do concede that the PSP has made significant inroads to tournament promotion, especially in the last year but Tony, let's be fair, this was the WORLD CUP, shouldn't we expect a little more from Jerry who has had enough experience by now of what people need when attending tournaments ?


Pete

Can I put in a view from someone who has only ever talked about attending a WC event (comming from South Africa makes everything too expensive)
Shouldn't the WORLD CUP be just the teams that somehow qualify to attend, not just anybody that can foot the bill for entry & thus take up space (no offence to anybody that played the event), take a look at any other sport that claims that one of their tournaments is the 'WORLD CUP' you have to work your ass off to get there, not just pay the fee & turn up.
It could mean that promoters may need to think of translating some of that cash chasing from "Get all the teams entered that we possibly can" to "Promote this as the culmination of the season with the top X number of teams from the WORLD & charge admission", make it a spectator event, with massive trade presence, and fewer, better administrated teams & games.

Surely that would make the cup possibly a bit shorter, but easier to handle - if you know that only 50 (or whatever) teams total are ever going to QUALIFY you could start organising next years tounament NOW! Not two months before it all kicks off.

Ok, now I prepare to face the wrath of the experienced, tearing my arguements to shreds, come on, give me your best shot, I can take it (I hope)

 

[paintyerass]

Quite the opposite, I agree with you completely. Paintball has grown to a sufficent size in most places that the World Cup should be just that, a competition between the best each country/area has to offer. Local/regional competition culminating in say top 5 teams getting a berth, with financial support to countries traveling large distances or large currecy imparities.

 

[Buddha 3]

Don't worry, your suggestions make sense.
But in the end it's the promotors of the event that decide what way they want to go with it, and they will most likely pick the money way. And I think we can all agree that 300 teams brings a whole lot more revenue than 50 teams.
Keep in mind that we are not yet a truly organised sport. Sure, there are leugue standings, but there is no real season. There is no great, big final "superbowl sunday" in paintball. Instead, each event is a stand alone thing, with it's own champions. Demonstrated by the fact that there's a bigger fuss about Aftershock winning the cup, then there is about Ironmen and Dynasty sharing first place in the league. How sad is that? In a 'real' league, we would have demanded these teams face off!

Hopefully X-ball will change that.

 

[Robbo]

Budha has nailed it in one, Jerry has never run the cup as an exercise in 'what's right' or 'what's best for the teams' or 'what's best for paintball', it is an income stream that is bled dry on an annual basis, that is the motivation, make no mistake about that !!!!
Limiting the number of teams, limits the amount of income and that is like Kryptonite to our old mate Jerry

The proposal that will be put before the PSP by Richmond after our talks will allow a knockout format of all the best X-Ball teams producing a winner in a final game.
Sounds all well and good but as I have said before, there's many an ego to traverse before this proposal is accepted Stateside because I think there won't be too many voices of resistance from over here.
Robbo

 

[Bigdog]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Don't worry, your suggestions make sense.
But in the end it's the promotors of the event that decide what way they want to go with it, and they will most likely pick the money way. And I think we can all agree that 300 teams brings a whole lot more revenue than 50 teams.
Keep in mind that we are not yet a truly organised sport. Sure, there are leugue standings, but there is no real season. There is no great, big final "superbowl sunday" in paintball. Instead, each event is a stand alone thing, with it's own champions. Demonstrated by the fact that there's a bigger fuss about Aftershock winning the cup, then there is about Ironmen and Dynasty sharing first place in the league. How sad is that? In a 'real' league, we would have demanded these teams face off!

Hopefully X-ball will change that.

Fine, there may be less money comming from the teams, and that has to come from somewhere, MARKETING
Make the event into something that everyone wants to go to, and would be willing to pay just to get in & watch.
There is no "SUPERBOWL SUNDAY", why not?? Thats the type of thing that a world cup should be, not some cluster **** of organisation. You would think that if anybody was capable of making a spectacle of anything, it would be the Yanks.
I wish it could be like "DAMN!! I missed the world cup", but its "Oh well, at least I didn't waste my time going to something that wasn't too spectacular anyway."

This all stems from seeng paintball in a new light, compared to SA there is just so much more going on out here, but to see things go halfway & stop is just so frustrating.

If its going to be called the world cup, surely it should have to be something special, not just a week (or however long it went on for) that people only think about 1 or 2 things (Aftershock wins, Salm suspended, who cares about the rest). Thats not how it should be.

D

 

[Buddha 3]

I'm not saying that I support the way it is now, but I'm just explaining the way things work.
As far as marketing goes, that always a big if. The way it works now, Jerry Braun has guaranteed money in his pocket. Simple. If he's gonna try to market the event to outsiders (mind you, we'd still need a proper league to make it into something like a proper world cup, worthy of the title), he doesn't have this guaranteed money. He might get it, but it could also trun out that he marketed the whole thing wrong, or to the wrong demographics.

Guess which way he'll go for...
I'm not being pessimistic, just realistic.

 

[Wadidiz]

I know who Tony Montana is!

A least I would be willing to bet 2 to your 1 on being right. If it is who I think it is, it is the single person I respect the most in paintball. (Although I wonder if a person of this integrity ought not jump ship about now.)

Part of the reason I'm sure is because of the writing style. One of the few out there who is more verbose than me.

I agree with many of his points.

Concerning judging at NPPL/PSP compared with Millennium, I have limited experience at World Cup's and other NPPL events. I have played in three NPPLs and I have not experienced a single bad call. The last was WC 1999 (and things must have gone south since then) and I played every game including the finals and saw nothing but competent hands-on reffing. In both WCs I judged with pro teams including the finals, and I did not see more than one or two mistakes. Everyone busted their buns to do a great job.

I have attended three Millenniums and of those, played and judged in one and judged all the way through in another. Again, I saw nothing but stand up judging and a few honest mistakes. (I know that I made one kinda mistake, but from other perspectives I may have made one or two more.)

I would say that in the NPPL there is more competency and capacity for better judging just because their is more top-level play in America. Just sometimes the will isn't there and too often I suspect player-judges use their reffing obligation as an opportunity to party more than they would if playing.

But the biggest problem I suspect in the NPPL is a trend to not consistently apply the rules for fear of being a dick. And I fear that has snow-balled.

So, for the 100th time, I refer to the suggestions in the "Enforcing the rules..." thread. I believe some form of these suggestions could turn things around to more consistency.

As for "Tony Montana's" discussion, what about the lack of refs on some fields? How can the NPPL rules be enforced for the tournament organizers, the rules that require a minimum 4 refs for 5-player and 6 for 10-player, which is way too short anyway?

I suppose the shortages came too late to be anticipated.

Also I, like Magued, am very curious about the bad reffing at Joy. It seems pretty obvious to me which field Montana was referring to. "Tony", what are some examples of bad reffing did you see? I might agree with you.

Steve

PS. Just added a new girl to my team. Her name is Chloe and she was born on Halloween day and weighed in a 4065 grams. So this blip of time making all the many posts may be over for a while.

SM

 

[Bigdog]

I know, but its nice to rant & dream.

I didn't think for a second that the post here would actually change anything, but that doesn't change the fact that things should be better.
Those suggestions were all IMO

Later
D

 

[manike]

Congratulations on the new addition Steve.

I think many of us could make an informed guess on TM's identity but I don't think it matters as long as he is making well informed points.

I've been at WC for the last 4(?) years. When GZ were marshalling it and had control of many fields the level of judging was much higher. I don't know all of the people who used to judge and I believe farside still do? but it hasn't always been as badly judged as it was this year (in my opinion anyway) certainly two years ago I had no complaints about judging, they were more about safety. Maybe with GZ playing and not judging we lost a lot of experienced marshalls which led to a reduction in quality of marshalling?

There was no excuse for so few judges though! They knew how many fields they would have way in advance of knowing how may teams would enter.

This year safety was vastly improved with excellent netting for spectators (still too may goggle off incidents) but much of the judging was laughable.

There seems to have been an influx of power crazed idiots who don't know the rules and don't judge within the spirit of the game. There was also some horrific bias and letting slide of rules for pro players but heavy penalising novice and rookie teams.

I'd like to see more honest consistency.

We need someone actually checking the quality and effort put into marshalling (and yeah I know it isn't easy, I used to do it a lot) and there needs to be a bonus for good judges and penalties for bad ones.

I like the idea of 'PRO' and think it is a step in the right direction, but it's nowhere near where it needs to be. And some of the PRO guys are not as good as they ought to be. Hats off to WDP for what they are doing but we need more sponsors to support the judging and to make it an attractive job for the GOOD judges by paying decently etc.

manike