Pop quiz for Millennium/NPPL judges

[Wadidiz]

I thought I would bring up some situations one might face as a judge during a game and ask what you would do. Please feel free to answer or come up with your own hypothetical situations.

Maybe this could become a mini-course in tournament reffing.

1. The game is winding up and a player approaches her home base to hang the flag. She inspects herself before hanging the flag and you see that she has a hit on her pack, in the back in a place she wouldn't be likely to feel. She hasn't broken the plane of the flag station yet. What do you do?

2. Same as above but you don't see the hit until after she breaks the plane of the flag station?

3. A player is carrying the flag and receives a lot of fire while behind his bunker. you are having a hard time seeing if he is hit or not and he cries, "Check me, marshall! Call me neutral, marshall! Call me neutral!". What do you do?

4. A player grabs the flag and then sticks it in the back side of his headband so he can have both hands free. What do you do, if anything?

5. A player shows up on your field with stickers of many different colors on her hopper. What do you do?

6. A player runs to a bunker on the break. You get around to checking him and notice that he has a hit in the middle of his back.
What do you do?

7. A player makes a move to bunker another player and is hit about the same time as the bunkered player. But the first player keeps moving forward and takes a second player out. The remaining two teammates of the first player take advantage of the distraction and backdoor the opposing players that are left, grab and hang the flag. What do you do?

8. You see a player outside the netted area with an unbagged marker with barrel on and with tank attached. You tell the player to bag his barrel and he answers, "There is no air in the tank." You tell the player, "The marker must be bagged. This is a warning, your team will be penalized if it happens again." Later you see the same player with unbagged gun. What do you do?

I have more. This will get us started, those who are interested.

Steve

 

[TJ Lambini]

1. The game is winding up and a player approaches her home base to hang the flag. She inspects herself before hanging the flag and you see that she has a hit on her pack, in the back in a place she wouldn't be likely to feel. She hasn't broken the plane of the flag station yet. What do you do?

>>>Call her eliminated and leave her standing there with the flag...if she's cute, get her phone number.

2. Same as above but you don't see the hit until after she breaks the plane of the flag station?

>>>As above

3. A player is carrying the flag and receives a lot of fire while behind his bunker. you are having a hard time seeing if he is hit or not and he cries, "Check me, marshall! Call me neutral, marshall! Call me neutral!". What do you do?

>>>>Get in close and attempt to check him whilst play continues.

4. A player grabs the flag and then sticks it in the back side of his headband so he can have both hands free. What do you do, if anything?

>>>Nothing

5. A player shows up on your field with stickers of many different colors on her hopper. What do you do?

>>>Nothing

6. A player runs to a bunker on the break. You get around to checking him and notice that he has a hit in the middle of his back.
What do you do?

>>>Pull him out.

7. A player makes a move to bunker another player and is hit about the same time as the bunkered player. But the first player keeps moving forward and takes a second player out. The teammates of the first player take advantage of the distraction and backdoor the opposing players that are left. What do you do?

>>>It ends in a hang to the cheating team? Reverse the result...

8. You see a player outside the netted area with an unbagged marker with barrel on and with tank attached. You tell the player to bag his barrel and he answers, "There is no air in the tank." You tell the player, "The marker must be bagged. This is a warning, your will be penalized if it happens again." Later you see the same player with unbagged gun. What do you do?

>>>Apply the maximum penalties tha rules allow.

I ain't reffed for years so I'm probably waaaay wrong, but that's what I'd do in all those circumstances if I was transported to tha middle of an event and made to ref now...

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
1. The game is winding up and a player approaches her home base to hang the flag. She inspects herself before hanging the flag and you see that she has a hit on her pack, in the back in a place she wouldn't be likely to feel. She hasn't broken the plane of the flag station yet. What do you do?

>>>Call her eliminated and leave her standing there with the flag...if she's cute, get her phone number.

2. Same as above but you don't see the hit until after she breaks the plane of the flag station?

>>>As above

3. A player is carrying the flag and receives a lot of fire while behind his bunker. you are having a hard time seeing if he is hit or not and he cries, "Check me, marshall! Call me neutral, marshall! Call me neutral!". What do you do?

>>>>Get in close and attempt to check him whilst play continues.

4. A player grabs the flag and then sticks it in the back side of his headband so he can have both hands free. What do you do, if anything?

>>>Nothing

5. A player shows up on your field with stickers of many different colors on her hopper. What do you do?

>>>Nothing

6. A player runs to a bunker on the break. You get around to checking him and notice that he has a hit in the middle of his back.
What do you do?

>>>Pull him out.

7. A player makes a move to bunker another player and is hit about the same time as the bunkered player. But the first player keeps moving forward and takes a second player out. The teammates of the first player take advantage of the distraction and backdoor the opposing players that are left. What do you do?

>>>It ends in a hang to the cheating team? Reverse the result...

8. You see a player outside the netted area with an unbagged marker with barrel on and with tank attached. You tell the player to bag his barrel and he answers, "There is no air in the tank." You tell the player, "The marker must be bagged. This is a warning, your will be penalized if it happens again." Later you see the same player with unbagged gun. What do you do?

>>>Apply the maximum penalties tha rules allow.

I ain't reffed for years so I'm probably waaaay wrong, but that's what I'd do in all those circumstances if I was transported to tha middle of an event and made to ref now...

For what looks like a spontaneous, quick response this looks pretty good, TJ.

For number one, I had the privilege of doing a thorough check on one of the Fat Lady's. Can't be too careful!

I give you a score of 4 out of 8. That's 50%.

Let's see how others do. And I could be wrong in my assessment.

 

[TJ Lambini]

I'm aware that some of my calls are 'wrong' according to tha rulebook, but I prefer to be flexible and judge situations on intent and relative merits rather than rigidly quoting tha rules...

Probably why I'd suck as a ref...

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
I'm aware that some of my calls are 'wrong' according to tha rulebook, but I prefer to be flexible and judge situations on intent and relative merits rather than rigidly quoting tha rules...

Probably why I'd suck as a ref...

Au contraire, I think your attitude is very common among good refs. It could just be a question of understanding the intention of some of the rules.

To give you some hints I would say there are a couple of situations where some soft-spoken words would be in order, and a couple of places where the rules, or intentions of the rules, need to perhaps be better understood.

I'll leave it at that so that others can give their quick answers.

 

[ascutt]

Here we go.......

1, Eliminate her, the shot is not in the self-check area so no 1-4-1.
Return the flag back to the base as quickly as possible.

2, As above, the fact she hung the flag has no bearing.

3, Is it is not possible to check the player properly without interrupting play then call him neutral and check him quickly (ensuring no-one moves on him whilst he is neutral)

4, Nothing.

5, Tell him to either remove the stickers or not play with the loader - his choice.

6, Pull him out.

7, Tricky one. The player has played on and the judge must make a very quick decision - if the playing on is blatant then 3-4-1 the team (if this leave no-one left on that team then the max goes to the opponents). If the playing on is not blatant then the rules only allow for a 1-4-1 which would need to be done straight away. This kind of call is what seperates the great judges from the rest.

8, Its a safety issue - inform the Ultimate, giving him details of whats happened and let him do his job.


I have based these answers on Millenium Rules as I believe them to be - the only one I have actually checked is the flag carrying rule - the rest come from memory.

I have a couple more to add:

9, You chrono a player on field at 315fps - What do you do?

10, You are mashalling 2 teams whose language you dont understand and you can clearly hear calls coming from outside the field (but you cant understand what is bieng said) - what do you do?

11, From the other side of the field you see a player clearly hit on the shoulder, by the time you get to the player he has his shoulder against the barricade shooting down the other side - there is no sign of the hit when you check the player - do you penalize him for playing on or wiping, eliminate him or just let it go?

12, A team captian refuses to sign the score sheet at the end of a game - what do you do?

 

[Flash-Bugout]

I agree with Scutty apart from the Hopper call, I think it should be a judgement call, if the stickers look like they are arranged to hide a hit, then yeah, player removes the stickers, or plays without the hopper. If there's just a few stickers, then so be it (also, I reckon half and half hoppers should be allowed too).


9 - Player is eliminated, and I'd check to see if there are penalty points associated with hot guns too. (There should be)

10 - Warn the people making the calls (use the internationally understood "shush" gesture for clarity), if they carry on, start eliminating players. I'm pretty sure (from memory, without looking up in the rules/whatnot) that the official language of the Millennium series is English, and all treams should endeavour to know the basics (such as "on is oppaaa", and 1-4-1)

11 - 3-4-1 for wiping isn't it?

12 - Ask him why he disagrees with the score, if he has a valid arguement, fair enough, if he doesn't, than there's not a lot he can do about it (from experience)

But that's just how I'd call it, I'm by no means an experienced marshall, so there's probably a few wrong calls there

 

[Wadidiz]

Here we go.......

Originally posted by ascutt
1, Eliminate her, the shot is not in the self-check area so no 1-4-1.
Return the flag back to the base as quickly as possible.

2, As above, the fact she hung the flag has no bearing.

3, Is it is not possible to check the player properly without interrupting play then call him neutral and check him quickly (ensuring no-one moves on him whilst he is neutral)

4, Nothing.

5, Tell him to either remove the stickers or not play with the loader - his choice.

6, Pull him out.

7, Tricky one. The player has played on and the judge must make a very quick decision - if the playing on is blatant then 3-4-1 the team (if this leave no-one left on that team then the max goes to the opponents). If the playing on is not blatant then the rules only allow for a 1-4-1 which would need to be done straight away. This kind of call is what seperates the great judges from the rest.

8, Its a safety issue - inform the Ultimate, giving him details of whats happened and let him do his job.


I have based these answers on Millenium Rules as I believe them to be - the only one I have actually checked is the flag carrying rule - the rest come from memory.

I have a couple more to add:

9, You chrono a player on field at 315fps - What do you do?

10, You are mashalling 2 teams whose language you dont understand and you can clearly hear calls coming from outside the field (but you cant understand what is bieng said) - what do you do?

11, From the other side of the field you see a player clearly hit on the shoulder, by the time you get to the player he has his shoulder against the barricade shooting down the other side - there is no sign of the hit when you check the player - do you penalize him for playing on or wiping, eliminate him or just let it go?

12, A team captian refuses to sign the score sheet at the end of a game - what do you do?

Here are a few "right" answers and interpretations. I can be wrong and then there is the question of whether or not the rules are reasonable.

1. The player is immediately called eliminated and is stood up with flag in hand, just like TJ said. If a looker, get her number.

2. In that case flag goes back to where it came from ASAP.

3. Neutral calls are not allowed for flag carriers. TJ was right.

4. I would tell the player to make the flag more visible.

5. I would go with Scutty's suggestion. I believe that rule is to get rid of those confounded situations where we run across the field to check what we think is a hit only to find it is a sticker. We have better things to do with our time and energy.

6. I would, and have done, a 1-4-1. The player's obligation is very clearly spelled out in this rule:
_________________________________
10.06. Players with obvious hits in areas which are not easily verifiable, such as the back, may continue to play, but must immediately call on a teammate who can easily verify whether or not the paintball broke to indicate whether or not such player was eliminated. The teammate must respond immediately, and if the hit player was eliminated, he must cease play, signal his elimination and exit the field pursuant to the provisions of this Section 10.0. Failure to call on such teammate for verification or failure of such teammate to respond immediately constitutes playing on by the hit player. If no such teammate is available for verification, such player may continue to play, but must immediately call for a paintcheck by a field judge. Failure to call for such a paintcheck immediately will constitute playing on by such player.
________________________________

I'll come back to the others when I get back from lunch.

Good feedback!

 

[ascutt]

Wow, you're right

Wadidz

I have just checked the Millenium rules and you're right - flag carriers can not be called neutral - what a stoopid rule!!

As for the shot on the back, I think you're being a bit harsh there - especially on the break out!!

 

[Wadidiz]

Wow, you're right

Originally posted by ascutt
Wadidz

I have just checked the Millenium rules and you're right - flag carriers can not be called neutral - what a stoopid rule!!

As for the shot on the back, I think you're being a bit harsh there - especially on the break out!!

Maybe there is some reason for the non-neutral rule for flag-carriers. Like Robert Zimmerman sang: "The masters make the rules, for the wise men and the fools.."

Concerning the obvious hit that you can't check yourself, I wouldn't pull the 1-4-1 instantly. It would only be deserved if the player didn't respond immediately to impact that must have been felt (or heard) and call for a paintcheck. Remember what this game is all about: if you're hit you leave the game. If you feel or hear an impact your obligation is to find out if it is a valid hit or not. After you make a call for a paintcheck and while you're waiting on an answer, you're still in the game.

To get back to your replies, Scutty:

7. You're right, that is tricky. The rules as of now don't call for a 3-4-1 for playing on. But IMO what I described is a game-changing play-on, so a 2-4-1 would be in order which would leave one opposing player who should be wiped and who could grab and hang the flag, time permitting. I would add, however, that if it took more than a few seconds to sort it out and say, maybe, the wrongly taken out player were already in the dead box, then the flag hang would automatically go to the non-cheating side, like TJ said.

8. You're exactly right.

9. Good question! In Millennium the said player is eliminated. Nothing more. In the NPPL anything over 310 would result additionally in a 1-4-1, which I think is a better rule.

10. If it sounds like shouting towards the players then do as flash-bugout suggests and give the be-quiet gesture. If it happens again then gesture the offending party away from the field and quickly notify the ultimate about it with a description of the offending party. If the ultimate can sort out who it is and it persists, then penalties should be applied or the offending party must be asked to leave the tournament, whichever is applicable.

11. This is a tuffy! The general, unwritten rule is that you must clearly witness the wiping. If you saw the guy smear the hit against the bunker then you are sure about it, then apply the 3-4-1 with "extreme prejudice" and make sure nobody sees any hesistation on your part or you're in a world of rotten sushi. If you were away from the player in question for a few seconds then it could be hypothetically possible that the player was wiped by another judge for a non-valid hit.

12. I could not find anything about score-sheets mentioned in either set of rules. What I would do is contact the ultimate so the captain could get the dispute sorted out ASAP. Or I would suggest that the reason for his signature is to attest that she/he has understood what points have been assigned by the head field-judge and invite him to write "in protest" on the sheet. Then I would suggest that he discuss the matter with the ultimate.

Keep 'em comin'.

Steve