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Paintball - Skill or Speed?

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Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
That's enough of that kids

Pete expressed an opinion. Not very constructive admittedly but not personal either and as long as it doesn't deteriorate to personalities it's ok.

Richard--you on the other hand ran a fairly fine line with an insinuation. Say what you meant and let's get it sorted.
EDIT--too late. Story of my life.:rolleyes:

Pete--just from my p.o.v. I'd say Richard meant less about you than he meant to "defend" Tyg. You've got to remember it's easy for forum guests to see you in a bullying role given your style and profile even when it's unintended.

So can we all calm down and delete all these unnecessary posts?
 

Gyroscope

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Aug 11, 2002
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You know, Robbo, even if you are tired of having the same debate with Tyger, there are those who would benefit from seeing it spelled out. New members of the forum don't always go through the archive to get up to speed.

It doesn't seem like it would be beneath you to correct misconceptions. You may not change Tygers mind, but this is public debate, with a potential victory for each version of truth in each witness.



If you feel that it is just the organ grinder calling you to another public performance, you could always ignore it. Me, I like to dance.
 
That's enough of that kids

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Richard--you on the other hand ran a fairly fine line with an insinuation. Say what you meant and let's get it sorted.

So can we all calm down and delete all these unnecessary posts?
Straight up. The Fool thing was a mistake it a came out all wrong and I have appologised, but reiterate it here. Sorry Robbo, I do not think you are a fool.


Baca, sorry if I oversteped the mark. Please delete all of these posts, as I said before I wanted to take these over to PM anyway (though I can see why Robbo might have wanted to see my appology in public).

Richard

edited after further thought
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
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Originally posted by gyroscope
You know, Robbo, even if you are tired of having the same debate with Tyger, there are those who would benefit from seeing it spelled out. New members of the forum don't always go through the archive to get up to speed.
It doesn't seem like it would be beneath you to correct misconceptions. You may not change Tygers mind, but this is public debate, with a potential victory for each version of truth in each witness.
If you feel that it is just the organ grinder calling you to another public performance, you could always ignore it. Me, I like to dance.
Gyro, I think you maybe right but you have made some eloquent points already in refuting Tyger, my gas tank is now empty with regard to him.
I just can't be bothered with him any more, so feel free Gyro to indulge yourself with him but I fear if you are looking for a resolution, then you might as well go and talk to the toilet brush.
Good Luck !
 

Gyroscope

Pastor of Muppets
Aug 11, 2002
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I guess for me, I am not talking to Tyger but to his claim. The audience for that includes Tyger, but is not limited to him. I try to influence people to see the truth, as I understand it. If they still disagree with me, so be it. I think it likely that I will not change Tyger's mind on this matter, but some people with less invested in a position may come to see things as I do.
 

Manning26

Well-Known Member
The Ironmen did win the 'Cup in '94.

WC '94 (Time Warp)
Ironmen take the title in the last game of finals versus Dynasty. Both teams come out sweet-spotting hard, Ironmen and Dynasty losing Benini and Fraige respectively on the breakout. Quickly, Bush and Lang trade-out in a fierce Sniper vs. 'Cocker duel in the center of the field. The Ironmen lose bodies as they try to take advantage of the open center, but the palms don't provide enough protection for some long bunkering runs. Dynasty counters, flooding the 'Mens' defenses with their 8-4 body advantage. Youngblood gets an elimination before getting rocked by a fast-streaking SK. Everything seems hopeless as Long and Dirk manuever to protect the flag, watching flicks of blue jersey come towards them through the openings in the palms. All of a sudden though, shooting and screaming breaks out at the Dynasty end of the field as Shane Pestana comes out of his crawl, wreaking havoc on the Dynasty back's. Pestana's shrill screams echo across the field surrounded by the ceaseless 'click-clack' of his Autococker. The Dynasty push stalls, thrown into utter confusion by the events. Dirk and Long bracket SK behind a low Palm while what's left of the kids turn back to stop the losses. Pestana already has the advantage though, not only of surprise and confusion, but that of cover. The kids have to push back into their own bunkers from the front-side. Pestana continues the kill-crazy-rampage, right up until a trade with Fragoza. A short flurry of, "I got him first!" breaks out from both players, but the refs simply pull both armbands, and leave the two players fuming back to the deadboxes. After a good minute of the last two Ironmen working over SK's cover with endless strings of paint, the refs finally pull him for the simple fact that they can no longer differentiate the splatter from a real hit, should he actually recieve one. After five more minutes of cautious tree-walking, the 'Men finally realize they're the only two on the field and finish the game with mere seconds left to spare.

That's what I think would happen anyway. Man, it's late, I'm goin' to bed.
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Originally posted by gyroscope

7. A question to Mr Rubin: Can the accomplishments of the last ten years all be obtained in a week's time by a team fresh from the time machine? Ten years of developement are all external to the player? No disrespect intended, but I don't agree. Persuade me.
I'm gonna make this quick, and it may not explain everyhting. I have 5 hours to get SOME sleep.

For all the pats on the back we give ourselves concerning "progress", we are playing the SAME GAME we did in the 90's, just in new surroundings. As much posturing as some will do, the fundamentals of the game, the basic skills of the game, have not changed. Yes, there are nuances that change (sliding techniques, sweetspotting from the break, and so on), but it's the same basic game we played in the 90's. ONLY the firepower has signifigantly changed, and stayed changed. Hell, we can't even decide if we like long or short barrels, small bore or large bore paint, or if we like 5, 7, or 10 man games, but we LOVE that 20 BPS ideal!

And as much as some will argue this or that about how much the game has signifigantly changed, it's just putting ice on a bruised ego. Paintball has not changed, with the exception of the look and the firepower. And that's what you need to understand. What we play now is the SAME THING. A few skills are diffrent, but not so diffrent that it's a whole new animal.

CASE IN POINT : "The Werewolves". A team based out of New Jersey area back in the EARLY 90's. They reunited (in a small force, not the whole team) recently and played a tournament a year or two ago (IAO, I think?), and cleaned house. They used to used pump guns, Bushmasters if I'm not mistaken. They used Automags this time around, and wiped the walls with teams.

And, how do you suppose they won? Teamwork, angles, communications. ALL THE THINGS I already mentioned before this. These are the CORNERSTONES of paintball. And say what you want, but that does not change.

Hence, my point. If you took a team from 10 years ago, IN THEIR PRIME, put them on an air course with e-guns, give them a week to acclimate, and I think you'd see them hold their own, if not win. Same thing going hte other way. Take a team from now, put them back in '93, give them the top of hte line gear (Autocockers, Mags...) and give them a week to get into the wods tourneys. They would hold their own, if not win.

The only thing that's REALLY changed are the nuances. You can't slide your gun into a tree like an air bunker. You can't crawl on an air field like you can a woods field. But the break is the same, snapshooting, cover usage, the count, and most importantly, THE FLAG are the same. The only constant changing variable for the PLAYER is firepower.

The game has not changed enough that players from '93 would not recognise it anymore. It's REALLY that simple!

So much for my "Short" post...

-Tyger
 
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